Saying no and redefining success on your terms

Speaker 1 0:02

Well I think what it got me thinking is, Do I even want to do this work like I don't know if being good at it is enough for me to want it to be part of my business.

Leah Neaderthal 0:14

Welcome to the smart gets paid podcast with me. Leah Neaderthal, I help women land higher paying clients in their independent consulting businesses, but I've never been a salesperson. My background is in corporate marketing, and when I started my first consulting business, I learned pretty quickly that it's about 1000 times harder to sell your own stuff than it is to sell someone else's. So I taught myself how to do it, and I created the sales approach that I now share with my clients so they can feel more comfortable in the sales process, get more of the right clients and get paid way more for every client contract. So whether your client contracts are $5,000 $100,000 or more, if you want to work with more of the clients you love, do more of the work you love, and get paid more than you ever thought you could, then you're in the right place. Let's do it together. Thanks for tuning in, and don't forget to rate, review and share. Hey there, Leah here, and thanks for tuning in. I hope wherever you are, wherever you're listening to this, I hope you're having a good week, making some good progress in your business and taking some time for you. So it happens a lot that I'll be talking to a woman consultant about her business, and she'll say some version of this statement. She'll say, basically, there are a lot of things I can do, and sometimes it sounds like, you know, my skill sets are really broad, or I help clients with whatever they need, or I do a little bit of everything. And that's true. You know, when you come out of your career working for somebody else a lot of times, you do have a lot of skills, and you can do a lot of things. And for the first couple of years in your consulting business, you should do just that. You should take on any client or any project that comes your way, that you can do and you'd be excited about. And the goal is to gather data to see how you like it and how you like clients like that, and you should be gathering data about what work you really love to do and what lights you up. And that's what I tell everyone to do in the startup phase of their business, like the first, you know, 18 to 24 months or so. But you don't want to be doing that a few years into your business, just, you know, going with the whims or the needs of whatever client happens to come your way, because when you do that, you'll never become the driver in your consulting business. And as you're going from this startup phase, you know, taking on any client or any project to the messy middle phase, really being in control of the clients and the projects you take on, you get into this transition period where you're starting to really see what work you do want to take on, and you start to see the work that you don't want to take on, and you start to wonder to yourself, can I really say no to this? And that's the moment that the woman I'm talking to in this episode is in she does a specific type of leadership consulting for mid size and large companies. And as she's been growing her business, she's been saying yes to a lot of things, which, again, is what I would tell you to do for those you know, two years or so, to get data. And now she has data, and she's realizing that there's one service that she's been offering that she doesn't really like. It doesn't light her up, and, in fact, it really drains her, and she's wondering what to do about that now. So in our conversation, you're going to hear a few things. You're going to hear what to optimize your business for so you're doing work you love, you'll learn an important mindset shift for how to think about this work if you do take on work that you don't love, and you'll hear the trap that a lot of women consultants fall into when they take on work they don't love, and at the point where you're listening in, my client has finished the first section of work in the Academy, which we call building blocks. So she's implemented value based pricing to turn her services into value based price services. She's gotten even clearer on her best clients and the best work for her. She's done some mindset working about getting clients, and she's created her painkiller statement to communicate the value of her business. And we do that first so that we can then use that information to create a marketing flywheel that brings the right type of clients into your pipeline, and a sales system that helps you lead a sales process and land them as clients. So building blocks is a place where everyone starts. And at the end of that section, we have a call and we review it. So that call is what you're listening in on, and that's the work she's just finished. And as you're going to hear having done that work, that's where she starts to get really clear on what she wants to do and what she doesn't want to do. So I want to send a huge thank you to my client for allowing me to share this conversation with you. Take a listen, and at the end, I'll come back and share a lesson that you can apply to your business. Let's start with where you are right now. I mean, how do you feel having done the work that you've done so far?

Speaker 1 4:52

I feel clearer. I think just my head is less muddy, right? So that's really good. Just I think. Before I started, and we talked about this earlier on, but it's kind of the knowing you can do all the things and having a hard time picking a lane or, like, defining it, but I think I just had to get to the point where I would I let go of, like, promoting all the other stuff and in that opening statement, right? Because before I was like, I do this, and I do this and I do this, and it was confusing to me and to other people. And, yeah, that's hard, like, so I feel like in my head, I'm, I'm more confident coming in, maybe talking about one thing, but letting it be more organic, and how I get to other stuff where it's needed.

Leah Neaderthal 5:40

Yeah, you know that the way we approach this is like, if you can earn their interest, you know it's like to and then to keep talking, then, and you can ask questions, and the right angle will present itself, and you can make yourself more relevant for them than if you just said, Here's my menu, right?

Speaker 1 5:59

Yeah, that part's been good. I think that, and it's been kind of fun to see how it's still led to stuff like because I speak about a lot, and it doesn't keep people from coming to me, saying, Can you also facilitate a session on or because they can see a lot of the transferable pieces. Have they seen me in action? I don't have to, like, tell them I do all these things, right?

Leah Neaderthal 6:25

Exactly. If they're, if they know you're an expert in something, they will likely want you to be to come in for something adjacent, you know, because they're know that you're really good at this one thing. But if they don't know that you're an expert in anything, that it's harder for them to want to come to you for anything, right? And especially as you talk about this more, what you're going to be doing is planting the seeds for more people to send people to you, because they do know what you do, right and how you and the value you provide. Yeah, from my perspective, it's like this is where I want you to be right at the end of this process, feeling clear, feeling more in control, so that we can now we can build something to bring more of the right people to you, but So a plus. But what were you going to say? Something?

Speaker 1 7:11

I noticed that because we went through kind of the value based pricing and all of that, and that's always been a struggle since I I've been I'm about almost two years in now, but I feel like I've just been all over the place, right with pricing and trying things on and not feeling confident. I did notice that some stuff I was maybe diminishing. I was thinking, Oh, if I come in and I'm leading a session and it's my IP it's worth more, maybe so. But then I had a client that had me coming in. They wanted me to facilitate a strategic conversation, and to me, on the surface, that feels like worth less than what I then my whatever my workshop, but it's a lot heavier lift for me to do that, because you prepare and you research and you want to connect the dots, and you're you want them to have something valuable as a takeaway that they can action, right? And it's a lot more work for me than going in and leading a workshop on. And maybe it's because it there's stuff you're doing, but it's taking up also just different kind of headspace, and I'm way under pricing that compared to other stuff I do, because I just don't, I don't know if I just had to miss I don't know. I haven't done that as much outside of corporate, and in corporate, it's just part of your job, right? And I was aware of it in a different way, you know, when I started thinking about pricing and then kind of doing some of that work recently, well, and I think what it got me thinking is, Do I even want to do this work?

Leah Neaderthal 8:46

Interesting? Say more about

Speaker 1 8:48

that. I'm good at it, and I think that's why sometimes I feel compelled to do it. I'm a I'm a really good facilitator, and I help people navigate chaos really well. But I don't love all of the I love it in the moment. I don't love all of the peripheral stuff. I don't like all the prep. I don't like all the follow up. I don't like having to get them to a certain point by a certain time in the day. And it's not I don't know if being good at it is enough for me to want it to be part of my business.

Leah Neaderthal 9:20

I also think it's really high pressure, if you think about it, like, you know, you coming just with your smarts, and, you know, anything and like, a plan for the facilitation. You know, sometimes there are times that I, like, may, may have a call with somebody, and I get I used to this that used to happen a lot with, like, one on one clients, and I'd still nervous for those calls, because I'm like, I hope I do it well today. Do you know what I mean? I don't know if that, if that's the case with you also, but like, I felt so I felt very exposed, like, and I had to, like, give them something groundbreaking every time i.

Speaker 1 9:59

Did. I had this client I met with a while back, and she was like, we want to walk away with all these things right? And she had this list and and in a perfect world, if everyone behaves themselves, maybe we could do that right. But when you're working with an executive team that has like, dysfunction and, you know, unaired grievances and all the things right then you get in your life. But real life is these people have stuff they need to deal with, and if we don't deal with this, we are never going to get to your list of things. So in that case, I did say, I know you wanted to walk away with this today, here's what I'm observing. Are you okay if I make a shift, and she understood, and it was fine, but I still, at the end, I like, you know, I just it felt incomplete to me. And maybe that's more of the, I don't know, perfectionist tendencies, or whatever you want to call it, like, I like to have things buttoned up. And it didn't feel

Leah Neaderthal 10:55

buttoned up well. It feels good when you help the client get to where they want to go right? Like, and if you didn't get that, even though it wasn't your fault, you're not getting that, like, you know, those positive chemicals, like, I did a good job, yeah, you know,

Speaker 1 11:11

yeah, it feels lacking to me, like I wanted more time with them, but I don't have contracted more time with them, so I was like, good luck people,

Leah Neaderthal 11:19

right? And also, do you want more time with them? Because I one thing I was gonna say was, like, what would it look like if you just didn't say yes to those I think, yeah, what would that allow you to do?

Speaker 1 11:33

I feel a lot better about the work that I am doing, because I think the reason I like doing workshops is because there's closure, and I'm giving them something, they feel awesome about it. They're excited to use it. I often do get more business because then I advise them on, how do you operationalize this, like, how do you bring it to life? But there, I don't usually sell that first, because they have to have a compelling reason to think differently, which is what they get through the workshop. So I like, I like that the workshop can be a little bit one and done, but it has some room to grow if they, if they're willing to go there, that's, I don't know that just gives me more the warm fuzzies, and I feel like it does for them too, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We feel awesome. We're excited

Leah Neaderthal 12:22

to go, Yeah, well, and I think you know what would have your business look like if every engagement gave you those warm fuzzies and you did feel like you were doing a great job?

Speaker 1 12:34

Yeah? I think that that would feel great, even like that's probably all I've had, like, the last couple of weeks, is all of the warm, fuzzy stuff. So I feel awesome about my business. Like, even though it's challenging and it's hard and you're still having to, like, develop business and all, it feels like I'm doing the right mix of work where I've just been I've been happier and more optimistic about the next quarter. And there are a couple of things where people have reached out, can you facilitate? Where I've not committed, but I'm talking to them, and I tend to like to do that, I think a little bit more, not necessarily pro bono, but more as a way of giving back,

Leah Neaderthal 13:19

right? Well, because the warm fuzzies are that you've helped in some way, yeah, yeah, right. So I have a couple of

Speaker 1 13:26

products I'm doing that with now, but that's more pro bono or really low price, right?

Leah Neaderthal 13:31

Kind of Bono? Yeah. Well, so what if you optimize for the warm fuzzies? What if you optimize the business for feeling really good when you walk away from any engagement,

Speaker 1 13:42

I think it's, it'd be awesome. It's a little scary to say no to stuff, but, but if I could get the right mix that all feels like the right work, that would be pretty incredible.

Leah Neaderthal 13:57

Yeah, yeah. Well, and listen, you can say yes to any project or any contract for any reason at any time, right? And I think also sometimes we have short memories and we're like, oh, that was because it wasn't that bad, you know? And then you might do it again and be like, Nope, that was so bad. But So if, if down the road, you feel like, you know what I need a cash infusion, or I want to take this on for any other reason, you can always say, Yes, you know, but it, but it can be the exception. Instead of feeling like just because they have interest or they need you, doesn't, it's not a good enough criteria for you to take it, take it on, you know, because you're not in corporate and you don't have to, yeah, you know, wait, like, I think this is really a little bit of like, corporate unlearning, right? It's resist the automatic, yes, yeah, right. And I think you and I talked about that a little bit, right? It's like, resist. Be automatic Yes, like, they're asking for facilitation. And in corporate, we'd be like, okay, but now we could be like, instead of just saying yes to what they asked for, we can propose solving the problem in a way. We can do it right and work for us and so, and I think what you're talking about around the sizing is a great idea, because it's like, I don't have to get you to a place. You just ask me for my opinion, and I will get, I will tell you what I know, right? And I will give you advice, which is a very different type of, you know, pressure and expectation. And you because you can always control the advice you give, but you can never control the dysfunction in the room, you know? Yeah, so you do have a lot of tools in your toolbox. I think I just want to encourage you to just remember that you're the boss and you don't have to solve you can solve the problems in the ways that work for you, and, you know, we'll get good results, and you don't have to take on or say yes to anything where you're not going to feel good about it.

Speaker 1 16:06

Well, it's good to remember that. I think it's kind of this, maybe it's the scarcity mindset or whatever. But this year has been like this quarter is really good, but this year has really sucked revenue wise, before this quarter. And so there's a part of me that's like, just afraid it's gonna, like, end, right? So like, say no to stuff is hard because I don't know what's ahead. And you know, coming from 25 years of having predictability in income, it's been a hard adjustment for me to to live in so much uncertainty?

Leah Neaderthal 16:44

Yeah, well, and I think the good news is, that's why you're here, right? You know, you haven't even even gotten to them, the marketing part, or, like, the actual biz dev part, yet. And you know, when you think about it like that, yes. I mean, listen, like I said, you can say yes to anything for any reason at any time, right? And, and you don't say no to things, because I'm telling you to, I'm just saying you can, right? You're not required to. But listen, if it would make you feel better to take these on, say yes to them, so that you can bank the cash and put it in your reserve fund, or, you know, do whatever you need to do, do it, and I would advise you still do it on your terms, right? Your terms, meaning you do it when you are available, right? If you can't do it for another eight weeks, you can't do it for another eight weeks, right? Do it on your payment part, right? Make sure you're charging a premium for this actually something you don't want to do. You're making in your you're making an you're making an exception. You know, in your business to do this, yeah, so, you know, charge what you want or and charge more than what you want, right? And you know, make sure that you're, you know, going into it, that you can only control what you can control. So find ways to still feel good about it afterwards, right? Yeah, so it's, remember, you're still the boss no matter what. And, and so your terms, you know, quote, unquote, your terms can, can be a lot of things, and and build up a cushion, and get into a flow, and, you know, and then, you know, I think that the trap people fall into is they take out, they say yes to everything forever, right? They never get to a point, or never notice that they're at a point where, like, okay, I can, I can slow down. We're out of the woods, right? We're out of the woods. And so, you know, like I said, take on anything. Take on the things that you would satisfy, whatever it is you need, if it's to build the cushion or what have you. But just remember, you know, just remind yourself, or that a date for yourself to check in and be like, how am I doing now? And can I? Can I let up a little bit?

Speaker 1 19:03

Yeah, I think what helped, I don't remember what part of the building blocks this was in forgetting. I think it was a spreadsheet where it was maybe the revenue calculator, where we were thinking through, like, what is kind of the revenue and and thinking through the mix of work that would get there, right? And, yeah, that was really good for me, because I think I've just been thinking, I haven't been thinking about a number, right? Big picture, I've been thinking about, can I afford to live this month, right? Do I have enough to pay my bills and to pay my taxes? Which is a really different mentality, because it feels more frantic, right? Yeah, but it was really, it helped my brain to think through, oh, if I had, if I were to, like, take the two things I do most often, I probably would need, like, I could do 24 Workshops a year and four advising gigs, and being way more than okay, right? I don't know if that's the next I want, but I could do that. And then what would that he be per quarter? What might that look like per month, etc? It's really not that much. It's not that heavy a lift. If I break it down like it might be hard to get some of those, I don't know. But just the idea that I could, like, break it down smaller, and have a way to focus my energy, instead of just feeling like, I'm certain I'm going everywhere, yeah,

Leah Neaderthal 20:32

trying to get as much as possible is, like, is a very hard goal, right? It's a really stressful goal. It's funny, you're saying, like, not that much when you say 24 workshops. I'm like, what

Speaker 1 20:43

I mean, not for a year,

Leah Neaderthal 20:45

though, for a year I you, I mean, you know the work better than I do. But also, if you charged $2,000 more than what you're doing now, could you eliminate, right? Could you eliminate like, two of those?

Speaker 1 20:57

Right? Yeah, so. Or I could do one more advising and fewer workshops, because I make more money on advising. So I could, like, I could shift that mix, but it was just the idea that, Oh, like, I could break it down and say, Okay, next quarter, I'm trying to book this many workshops, and when I booked that night, I can stop freaking out, right?

Leah Neaderthal 21:16

Yeah, there's a finish line. There's a goal line. That's why you're talking to somebody who I'm like, I'm actually terrible at setting goals, because it's always goals, because it's always just like, Okay, well, just, we're just going to work hard and try to do the best we can, but, but you never reach a goal line, and so you never know when to stop.

Speaker 1 21:33

I need to know when I've done enough to be okay, not that you're going to stop developing business, but where I can think through my q1 like my deck is full for q1 and now I'm planning for q2 instead of trying to shove more stuff in q1 because right now, I think when people are like, oh, when do you have openings? It's kind of like, I my mentality has been a little bit more. I'll squeeze it in whenever you want. And it's good to be at the point where I'm like, oh, November and December are full. I'm booking now for January

Leah Neaderthal 22:07

or February on your terms. That's on your terms.

Speaker 1 22:12

I feel a ton better about knowing now that I'm booking for first quarter and I'm done. I technically could do more in q4 but I'm saying no, I'm booking for q1 which is it just feels way better to know that I'm not piling more on. I wouldn't have been there kind of in my mindset before I did this work in building blocks. Yeah.

Leah Neaderthal 22:38

Well, good. So you're at a great you're in a great place. I feel like we've sort of pulled the car back, the roll of toy car, we sort of pulled it back, and we're ready to, like, let it go. Yeah. All right. I love that conversation, and if anything you heard gave you an AHA or an insight, be sure to share this episode on LinkedIn with your thoughts and tag me so I can see how you're thinking about it. So there's a lot we could unpack here, and you know, as always, with these calls, a lot of threads we can pull. But I want to share one lesson from this episode that you can apply in your business. And it's this idea of the work that really lights you up and optimizing your business around that. So in our work, we talk about the three types of profitability for consultants, financial, professional and emotional. With financial we're talking about making great money to support your life. With professional profitability, we're talking about doing the work you love with clients you enjoy and being known for the right things. And with emotional profitability, we're talking about having fun, feeling good about your business and feeling optimistic about the future, and each of these is really closely connected. I mean, if your financial profitability isn't great, then your emotional profitability isn't going to be great either. I mean, obviously, like, if you're not doing well, then you're not going to feel great about the future of your business. But we don't often think about how professional profitability impacts our emotional profitability also. I mean, you heard it here from my client, when she's doing work that doesn't make her feel fulfilled, or work where she doesn't feel like she can do a great job, her professional profitability really impacts her emotional profitability. You know, just how excited she is about running her business or not. And then, of course, the opposite is true. You heard her say that, since she's been doing the work that really lights her up, she feels really good about her business. I mean, here's the thing, you're on an emotional roller coaster every week, every day, even it can happen where you can have multiple ups and downs, even within a day, you've probably seen a graph called day in the life of an entrepreneur where it's like a line graph going up and down a bunch of times, and every peak is like, business is great, and every valley is like, this is terrible. And if you haven't seen that, definitely Google day in the life of an entrepreneur graph. So we're sort of balancing on this pin. In and it doesn't take much in the way of, you know, any external factor to push us one way towards feeling amazing or the other way to feeling awful. There's so many external factors that can do that. A response from a client reading something bad in the news. It all affects us. So what we need to do to steel ourselves against the external factors is make sure that the internal is strong, that at least the work we're doing is the work we love with the clients we enjoy, and you need both for professional profitability. So I want you to think about to what degree are you working with the right clients, the ones who light you up, and to what degree is the work that you're doing lighting you up. And when you have professional profitability and emotional profitability, and you're charging the right amount, the financial profitability follows. And when your three types of profitability are in balance, you have a business that's not just profitable, it's sustainable and enjoyable. All right, I'll see you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai