From small projects to big impact, with Carrie Bornstein

Carrie Bornstein 0:02

It was a goal when I started to start working on bigger projects that would be more substantial like I felt really dedicated at that time to like doing smaller things also, but I didn't know how to really get to the bigger stuff unless it fell in my lap.

Leah Neaderthal 0:23

Welcome to the smart gets paid podcast with me. Leah Neaderthal, I help women land higher paying clients in their independent consulting businesses, but I've never been a salesperson. My background is in corporate marketing, and when I started my first consulting business, I learned pretty quickly that it's about 1000 times harder to sell your own stuff than it is to sell someone else's. So I taught myself how to do it, and I created the sales approach that I now share with my clients so they can feel more comfortable in the sales process. Get more of the right clients and get paid way more for every client contract. So whether your client contracts are $5,000 $100,000 or more, if you want to work with more of the clients you love, do more of the work you love, and get paid more than you ever thought you could, then you're in the right place. Let's do it together. Thanks for tuning in, and don't forget to rate, review and share. Hey there, Leah, here, and thanks for tuning in. I hope wherever you are right now, wherever you're listening to this, I hope you're having a great week, making some good progress in your business and taking some time for you. So a few years ago, when I was maybe six or seven years into my business, I started to realize something. So by that point, I had been running two different programs, one called pack your pipeline, which helped consultants use LinkedIn for their business and get leads, and another called signed which helped them lead a sales process and close clients and get paid more. But you can think about it like I had two programs, one to get the leads and one to close the leads and get paid more. So one to do marketing, and a separate one to do sales, and they were working. You know, clients were getting results. But I started to feel this nagging feeling that I was really only solving part of the problem, like, how do you get leads using LinkedIn, which we did in pack your pipeline, if you don't even know who your best clients are, which is something we did in sign or, how do you lead a successful sales process and get a yes, which we did and signed, if you're not attracting the people who actually have the problem that you solve, which we did in pack your pipeline? It started to feel like I was forcing people to, like, pick which problem they wanted to solve, but I knew that to truly have a profitable, sustainable consulting business, you need to do both. And what that meant was that I wasn't really having the impact that I wanted to have, which was to truly enable women consultants to have a system for getting leads and a system for landing them so essentially a marketing system and a sales system so that they could truly run more profitable, sustainable businesses. So I made a big decision, and I brought those two programs together, along with tons of other strategies that I really didn't have a home or like a place to put them before, and I created the Academy, which is my program that helps women consultants build a sustainable consulting business by solving the whole problem. And I talked about this a lot more in Episode 31 if you're interested in that whole journey. So it's episode 31 called the biggest decision in my business. And I was thinking about that process while I was editing this episode, because the woman I'm talking to today was experiencing a very similar nagging feeling around her impact today, I'm talking to Carrie Bornstein, who's a former nonprofit CEO who now does strategic consulting for Jewish nonprofits. And when Carrie started her business, she was doing mostly smaller, sort of one off projects, but she had that same nagging feeling that I had, which was that she wasn't having the impact that she wanted to have, and she knew that she needed to shift to bigger, more meaningful work, not just to hit her income goals, but because she came from the nonprofit world where impact was everything, and really she was in the business to have an impact on her clients. So in our conversation, Carrie shares how she made that shift, and how she started getting bigger projects with bigger impact, and how she really started to build a business that feels really good to run. So in this episode, you're going to hear how Carrie started landing bigger, more substantial projects while working less and feeling less stressed. You're going to learn the unexpected mindset shift that helped her stop, quote, unquote, making it up as she went and really start leading with confidence. You're going to hear how she made her work more replicable and more sustainable without becoming generic. And you're going to see how she built a business that not only supports her financially, but lets her have the impact she actually wants to have. So take a listen to my conversation with Carrie Bornstein, and at the end, I'll come back and share a lesson that you can apply to your business. I'm. Then hopefully someday soon, you'll partner with us to help you build your consulting business, and you'll come back on the podcast and share your story. Enjoy, Terry, thank you so much for being here.

Carrie Bornstein 5:10

I so my pleasure to be here. It's a little wacky, but thank you. Why wacky? You know, I have listened to the podcast since, like, you know, minute four of my getting into consulting. And everyone that I have listened to on the podcast seems like they're doing so well and, like, have it together. And, I mean, obviously there's like, messiness and there's challenge and all of that, but it's just like, it's a little surreal to be like, Oh, wait, am I in that category of Yeah, so Well, let's

Leah Neaderthal 5:49

well, you're here, you're here. I invited you here because the progress that I've been seeing with, you, know, in your business, and yeah, no, you're here, like you're doing well. So let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. So Carrie, why don't you introduce yourself?

Carrie Bornstein 6:06

So I'm Carrie Bornstein. I live in the Boston area with my three kids, with my husband, with my dog and and I work with Jewish organizations to help them develop clarity and alignment and do it in a way that it is, that it's like straightforward and actionable and clear, so that they can face the future with confidence and feel good about where they're going, and that they have their teams aligned to get there. I love Yeah. I love it. What were you doing before this? So I was the CEO of a nonprofit organization in the Boston area for I was there for almost 15 years total, and then I took over after the founder, and was in the CEO role for about 12 years, which was an extraordinary experience. It was wonderful. I learned so much in so many ways, and ultimately came to the point where I felt like I had, I had done what, what I was kind of cut out to do there, and I, like, felt really good and proud of the success, and was ready for a new challenge. And so then I maybe a little bit accidentally. I don't know, like, moved into the world of consulting since then. What do you mean by accidentally? So when I was leaving, I didn't have any plan for what I was going to do. I knew that I might my two requirements was, we're sticking around in the Boston area, and I want to spend some time not being a CEO. I was like, those are my two requirements. And I was looking around for other jobs, and I ended up picking up. There were, like, a couple of different projects that came to me that I took on feeling like, Okay, this will buy me some time while I look for the right thing and just give me a little cushion, because I needed to work and and could be combined with a full time job. And time kept going on, and I just felt like I just wasn't excited about the things that I was seeing, and it sort of occurred to me, like, wait a second, what if this actually was my strategy? What if I did consulting and, like, did project work and did my own thing? And so I decided to just put my job search on pause. And I said, I want to give this like three, four months. I'm going to dive into it and just see what happens, and see if it see if it happens, and like it happened, it just like it started rolling from there. So it's like, okay, here I am doing this now. Awesome.

Leah Neaderthal 8:56

I talked to a lot of women who who also sort of accidentally started a business, right? Or accidentally became a consultant, it's more common. It's a lot more common. You think, yeah, yeah. So what? So what year was that?

Carrie Bornstein 9:08

That was 2023, I left. I gave seven months notice to my job because I was just like, I want this to, like, be a long runway. I want to be public about my job search. And that pretends that you know that I'm like, all in when I'm really looking. And so it was like seven months of, like, just didn't, you know, didn't find anything. And then the summer, it was like, I think August or September of 2023, that I was like, Okay, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna do this.

Leah Neaderthal 9:38

So, so when you came to into my orbit. Or, you know, this markets paid orbit. You know what was, what was going on in the business at that point? I mean, you know, you, you reached out to us for a reason, like, what? What were the reasons?

Carrie Bornstein 9:53

Yeah, first of all, I reached out. I don't know if you remember, I reached out at like, Minute. One that I could or, like, make it minute, negative three, I was like, I'm sort of at 18 months. Let me, let me just reach out and see. You know, it's like waiting. I, like, had a mental note in my calendar, in my mental calendar, of like, when I want to start this thing and when I want to explore it, because I would say the main two main reasons. One was like, I just felt like I couldn't get enough of the podcast that, like, every time I listened, I was like, Yes, but how do I do that? Like, it was just like, yeah. So I had, I had that. I just felt like the content that I was getting from that was really worthwhile. And I felt like I needed, I like structure? I needed more structure to know. Like, so what? How does this work and like, I felt like I was just reinventing the wheel with so much of it, and trying to make things up on my own that I just didn't have any model for seeing the insides of like, how do people do this? So I didn't, I didn't like that. I was flying by the seat of my pants constantly. That was, yeah, that just like, didn't feel great. And I wanted specifically to, I remember it was, it was a goal when I started to, like, to start working on bigger projects that would be more substantial. Like, I felt really dedicated at that time to, like, doing smaller things also, but I didn't know how to really get to the bigger stuff unless it fell in my lap. Yeah, yeah.

Leah Neaderthal 11:36

Without that, you mentioned the structure, right? You were, like, flying by the seat of your pants. I mean, how did that play out from day to day or week to week? I mean, how did, how did that feel when you were doing that?

Carrie Bornstein 11:48

I think it felt like good and exciting in some respects, because I still, I mean, I still am, like, so enthralled with the fact that I have time to, like, research things or look into things that I'm excited about, that in my CEO world, like, just never had the bandwidth if I, like, wanted to know about something. It's just like, make it up, keep living because, like, there's no time. So I really loved the process of, like, discovering, like, let me do a Google search for this thing that I'm interested in and like, that was fun, but also it didn't like, I just, I never really knew if what I was doing and moving forward with was like, actually going to get me where I wanted to Go. So I would, like try something and relying, I guess, like, mostly on my instincts. I did another program, like, in the early, early startup days, and I was, like, connected with another community, but they didn't really give me the meat that I was looking for. I mean, yeah, I had like, some consultant friends who are, like, so generous and like, here, let me send you my, you know, the contract that I use, and let me, like, I'll send you an example of this. And like, so great, so amazing. And was like, felt like I needed. I'm motioning with my hands here

Leah Neaderthal 13:20

for the listeners, this sort of desire, you know, something grasping. There must be something more.

Carrie Bornstein 13:29

Yeah, I like, I needed the meat. I needed to, like, have a burger in front of me and be like, This is what a burger looks like, you know, let's take that analogy.

Leah Neaderthal 13:40

Yeah, I know. I love it. I'm with you. I'm with you. And so, yeah, I mean, I think it's that is kind of fun at the in the early days, right? Like, trying to figure everything out. Because you do make these big leaps when you figure something out and you're like, I did it, you know? And it feels so good, dopamine, it's like flowing or whatever. But yeah, I think that there is some sort of, like, transition, you know, I'm also motioning with my hands, just for everybody who choose on a podcast, motioning with our hands, you know, where you go from like, the good feeling of figuring it out gets lower. And the feeling that questioning of like, but what did I figure out? Like, did I do this right? Becomes more of the dominant, yeah, yeah,

Carrie Bornstein 14:21

question, yeah. And it's like, it's a little emotionally exhausting to constantly be questioning, like, I think this feels good, but like, is it and did it? Did it work just because it worked in this scenario, or did it work because this is, like, a good process to go through, and how do I deal with this, that and the other, like, weird thing that's coming up, I think you hit

Leah Neaderthal 14:46

on something really important, which is, like, did it work? Is this the best way it could be, or did it work, just in this case, right? Because I hear that, you know, some version of that a lot. That's what it looks like when you're sort of making it up as you go. Mm. Using bits and pieces here. And really, I think what you discover is like, every client is different and their situation is different, and how they say, are able to say, yes, it's different. And so I think that's the when I hear people are like, I don't really know if I've ever got it figured out. That's sort of what it is. It's like it might have worked in one case or two cases. But could I, does it work all the time or, or, you know, is it working as well as it could? Am I? Am I getting paid as much as it could be? You know, that sort of thing. I think you really hit on something there. So let's talk about the you wanted bigger projects and to do more substantial projects. Why was why was that important?

Carrie Bornstein 15:41

It's funny looking back on it now, I think it's I have a different answer to why it's important than I would have given you then. So I'll give you both answers. I think then, like, initially, what I would have said is, like, just, if I want to hit the income goal that I want to hit for the year, I need a certain number of projects at each of these different levels. And, you know, I don't want to say I, like, will never work for a, you know, very small organization, or do a very small thing, but like, the scales were tipped too far in one direction. I was very lucky to get a big project, like when I was just starting out, that really carried me through. And was like, wonderful. And is still, like, they've extended with me multiple times since then, which is great, so that, like, gave me some cushion. But a lot of my projects were just, like, very, very small, and it was like, just, if I'm going to make the money that I need to make doing this. It's not it's not going to happen from so many itty bitty I need to, like, balance them out. That's what I would have said. Then what I want to, like, add on to that is that I figure I want to say this like I'm in this work because I care, and I care about making an impact in the Jewish community and helping senior leaders like sustain themselves through their work and not feel so damn exhausted all the Time The way that I felt before October 7, 2023 like, and it's it's only gotten more exhausting and more challenging to work in the Jewish community. And like, I want to help, so I'm able to make a bigger impact with bigger projects and more if I'm like, if I'm doing a one off little thing, and that's all I'm doing. Then, then I'm able to make a smaller impact. But if I'm able to, like, work on a bigger challenge in a more extensive, ongoing way, then I can make more of an impact, and I can, I can help more. And so, like, I think, for my which is the profitability, emotional profitability, or or, yeah, like, I want to feel like I am making an impact in the Jewish community and like, and flexing my leadership muscles in just as real ways now as I was before, when I was CEO, which was like, very clear. I led an organization. I led a team, you know, we created a national network, and it was, like, very clear, big scale, like the impact that I was making. And that's, that's different. We are a consultant, and so the more I can dig in now, the more I feel like, Oh, I'm actually doing something for the world.

Leah Neaderthal 18:35

That's I love, that that's so important. And I know that probably feels better too, you know, to see, to see what how things were when you were the CEO of an organization, and trying to really prevent people from sort of feeling the same burnout. Yeah, well, so let's sort of Fast forward to today and talk about, you know, how things are as a result of making some of these changes. And then we'll talk about what helped you get there. So what have been some results from that you've seen from, you know, the work that we've done together? I mean, what's changed for the better? You know, we could talk the business, talk money, you as a business owner, want to hear

Carrie Bornstein 19:15

all of it. Where to begin? Okay, I, I'll start with, like, just picking up on some of what I shared before, which is, like, I have a structure. Now I have a process. Now I'm still getting comfortable with it. I'm still practicing. I'm still all of those things that take time, like this is obviously not an overnight poof thing. But I think the biggest thing for me was the sales process going through that that was like where I really wanted to dive in to start after getting some of the building blocks stuff done. And I mean, by the way, like I always heard you talk about the painkiller statement, and I spun and spun for like a. Year and a half trying to figure out, like, what is my painkiller? What? Like, just like, really thinking about it and trying to figure it out. And never felt comfortable and great about, like, how I referred to what I was doing. And then I like, I don't know how long it took me to get through that portion of the program, but like, the way that the activities were broken down and set it up. I was like, boom, boom, boom, boom. Okay. I mean, I still, like, worked on it, but it was like, oh, there it is. I did that. It, like, it just it made it possible and, like, cut through all of my spinning in a way that, like, got me what I needed. Yeah.

Leah Neaderthal 20:39

It's, yeah, it's, it's so funny, because I was just gonna say, like, I was gonna interrupt you and be like, she didn't, you didn't struggle with this for a year and a half in that program. But it was before you, you know, before you had the map, the roadmap, to actually do this, yeah, and I do remember that you got it pretty quickly. You really, like, embraced it. You know, you're embracing this process having a painkiller. I mean, how does that change?

Carrie Bornstein 21:05

It just It helps me lead with so much more confidence. Because when people are like, Oh, what are you doing these days, when I'm like, I'm not sure how to talk about it like, that doesn't feel good. And so it it helps me, just like, talk about what I do. It helps me think about how I am structuring things. It's given me a lot more confidence on LinkedIn, which I feel like I'm getting a handle on. Now that's like another big change, I would say, of just, I feel like I kind of get LinkedIn now, and I never got it, and it's like a weird place, and I still think it's a weird place, but, but now, when I'm reaching out to strangers who I don't know at all, and sending a connection request like before, like, I don't I wouldn't have even done that. Actually, I wouldn't have done that at all. And now I'm like, Oh, I help Jewish organizations develop clarity and alignment so they can face the future with confidence. Like, of course, they want to connect with me. Like, why? Like, I, can I help do this? So it's like, it just gives me the mental confidence of, like, Yeah, I'm gonna reach out to this person and see if I want to, like, connect on LinkedIn. It's like, low stakes, you know? So that's that's been helpful,

Leah Neaderthal 22:17

yeah? What else? What are? What else are some of the other game changers that

Carrie Bornstein 22:24

do the work? Yeah, I mean, I think just the like, that confidence piece is huge, that specifically that I believe now I'm like, I'm more comfortable relying on my expertise and crafting the work in ways that will be most useful for the clients and sustainable for me, but that I like, this is kind of a shift in going from smaller projects to larger projects is I'm more comfortable like and Know how to really try to, like, zero in on the challenges that they're having, because people don't typically show up on the phone and are like, I'm really having these problems. Can you help with X, Y and Z? Like, you have to. Maybe in other parts of the consulting world, it is like that. But I find that it's like, it often starts much more surface level. When you dig and you get in there a little bit, yeah, I'm more confident now in how to, like, really get under the surface with what's actually going on. And assuming I think I can help, I won't say that if I don't think I can but if I think I can help, I know I can help, I'm gonna tell them, and I'm gonna tell them how I think I can help, and most often, when I kind of give, give my like, summary recap of like. So here's what I here's what I am hearing of what's going on. Does that sound right? And like, what, you know, I think what the real issue is is x, they're like, Wow, yeah, that's actually right. They're like, they're almost surprised to hear it. And so that, the confidence that I have now, and the ability that I have to, like, zero in on that. That is, I think, a major part of what's made the difference between me saying, Sure, I'll do this, you know, small two hour workshop, right to, like, I just recently signed my first 12 month retainer. Never done that before. So I think that that's like, that's really a way, you know, that's been really important. And you know, the other thing that I will say is, like, my income has gone way up higher than I really ever. Like, when you say, like, I work with people to help them, like, make more money than they ever. Possible. That's, yeah, that's me. So that's been incredible.

Leah Neaderthal 25:04

That's amazing. It's awesome.

Carrie Bornstein 25:07

Yeah, when I started, I realized that when, when I started the program I had, I had like, a small amount in my pipeline, and that in the in six months in the program, yeah, I think I, like, almost quadrupled the amount of money in my pipeline, and that was from the same number of potential clients. So it wasn't like, oh, I now have this many more potential clients. And so it's, you know, that much more money. It was like, I think it was, each time it was six, like when I started the program, I had six potential clients that I was talking to that had not yet been confirmed. And six, six months in wasn't the same six clients. But I also had just happened to have six potential projects in the works, but the potential income was significantly higher. And at this point now, I I have certain like, when I remember when we first spoke and you were asking me, like, I think it was, maybe it was at, like, the holiday thing party, I don't know, like, like, How much money do you want to make in the next year? And I gave this, like, very tentative, like, I think this, like, probably minimum this much, if it's possible. But like, oh my god, if I could make that much, that'd be great. And in the first seven months of the year, I have already surpassed my maybe this much for the full year, and I am unless something goes like, totally off the rails. You know, by the end of the year, I will have surpassed even my like, Oh, my God. In my wildest dreams, if I can make that much so like that, I'm I'm stunned by it, honestly. I'm like, Oh, wow, this is working. This is really working. And my husband's all the time. He's like, you don't seem stressed out. You're not like, you're not like, working like a mad one. I'm like, No, I'm not like, I'm,

Leah Neaderthal 27:24

yeah, amazing, amazing. Well, so Oh my god, all of this is so incredible. So what I was going to ask is, you know, don't keep this in suspense. Like, were you able to reach your goal of or achieve your goal of having bigger projects with bigger impact. And it sounds like, you know, if you have the same amount of number in your pipeline, but the value of that is quadruples, correct. That's one indicator, you know, you I think you have shared in the in our community that your coverage, you know, like engagement, has also increased, yeah, and, and you're hitting your your discomfort, level, income, I mean, that's That is incredible. And I think doing that and not being stressed out. I mean, I think that's, you know, and I said at the beginning of this that, like, is, before we started recording, I was saying that, you know, the purpose of these conversations is to show women what's possible, what's possible in their business? And because a lot of women have this, like, belief that, you know, if they want to make more money, they're going to have to work way harder for it, right, and way more, and it's going to cut into they're going to have to sacrifice a lot of their time and whatnot. And, you know, I think they probably, you know, no fault of their own, like, they probably have that assumption from, like, their past jobs, right? If you, if you got a promotion, or if you did want to make more, do more, whatever, you were super stressed out, and you did have your same so, but I think that, like, that's why I'm so excited to hear, you know, you'd never told me this before, about what your husband says. You know that you're not stressed out because, yeah, you know, just showing what's actually,

Carrie Bornstein 29:01

actually possible? Yep, and I would say actually, the reverse is true, that as I've gone through the program, and as my like, the projects have have increased and things like that, I've discovered how to, like, hone in on work that will be replicable to other projects in the future. So, like, that's a big thing. Also that when I was doing these smaller projects before, they were like, they were like, these bespoke things that, you know, it was like, this one would never have anything to do with anything else moving forward. And I and some of this even just came. I don't think that this is like explicitly taught in the program at all, but some of this is just seeing how you model that, of like, kind of watching the way that you lead this program. Of like, what can I do now to system? This work because I know that it's going to be useful to another type of project that will be similar in the future. So I'm, I'm like, creating more templates for myself and creating more models of how, like, how to replicate the work so that it's, it's more of, it's like, more of a just set kind of structure. I keep coming back to the word structure, but, yeah, it's like, it's useful beyond just that moment. And that's, that's, I think what has helped me. It's just a more sustainable model, absolutely.

Leah Neaderthal 30:39

So just to clarify, you're not thinking like, oh, how do I make a course? Because I'm in this course, I'm seeing how you're you're starting to just notice and observe the, you know, how things, more things are applicable, right? Like, there are. You're seeing

Leah Neaderthal 30:54

patterns, essentially, yes,

Leah Neaderthal 30:57

well, and I think that's, I want to say. I think that's also a function of a lot of the things that we do in this program, because, and this, this, I think, is somewhat related to you, but I hear it universally. It's like, when you're taking the clients that happen to come your way, you are always responding to what they want, yes, right? And what they want could be vastly different, you know, from project to project, or, you know, within a range, but still different, and so you're adjusting for that, versus, like, being more proactive on the type of clients you want to work with and the work you want to do, or whatever, so that you can sort of narrow in and the, you know, the before way, if you're just asking questions about, like, you know, what do you want me to do, or whatever, versus really getting into, as you were talking about, like, really getting into, like, the actual issues in discovery, being able to do great discovery, you start to hear, you literally learn to hear things differently. I think you learn to hear things differently and listen for different things, and then also, like, frankly, having a full pipeline and being like, you know what? This isn't, this actually isn't the work I do, or there's somebody who's better suited for that. All of that really helps to narrow the scope of the problem that you're solving. And I think that, like, you know, a lot of, a lot of women consultants, really, it's funny, there are two camps, as I'm sort of thinking about this. At two camps, they're the people who are like, I really want work that's more replicable, right about and then there's, there is the other camp that's like, all my work is so bespoke, and they really see that as, like, a point of pride, you know. And I think that, I mean, tell me you've gone through this stuff like, you know, tell me if I think there's a middle ground where you can start to notice these things and do have more repeatable systems and but still customize it to the client. And but I think that, like, I think there's no, you know, to your point, like, there's no there's very little benefit of being like everything is different all the time. You know,

Carrie Bornstein 33:00

correct, yes, yes. And that was one of the biggest challenges for me coming into this before I started the program. Because when you lead a small nonprofit organization, you have to become really, really good at a lot of different things. There is no IT department that you can send your issues to. There's no HR department that you can ask your questions to, right? Like, it's you have to, you just have to, like, be good at a ton of different things. And so when I was thinking about, like, trying to figure out, well, what is the work that I am going to do? Yeah, at first it was, like, empowering, like, Oh, I could help in so many different ways. Like, I could, I've got so much expertise, a lot of which I never really wanted in the first place. But like, I know so much, I know I could help. And it took a little while, and a little pipeline build up to to be, be able to say with with some confidence of, like, no, that's, that's not the work I actually want to do. Or that's, that's not like, actually what I'm best at, or like, it's, I still maintain it's super helpful that I understand the dynamics of all of these things and like that still, I think, makes me a better partner for organizations that I work with, even if I'm not doing anything with I don't know, HR stuff like the fact that I get what happens, you know, in X, Y and Z scenarios, like, makes me more valuable. But yeah, I was able to, then start leaning into like, Oh, these are the actual issues that I care about working on. And like, lets me lean into that leadership piece that I was talking about before. Like, I really care about CEOs just being able to, like, take. On their work and not have it suck the life out of them. I want them to be able to work with their boards in really effective ways. I want the boards to like, be kick ass, amazing group of leaders who are inspired by the work and like, and I know like, I can help with all that. So like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna lean into those areas and make things totally work for that organization that I'm working with, like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna design it to what they need. But I'm still, like, within this corner of the world,

Leah Neaderthal 35:34

and I think there's so much power in that, you know, when people ask me, like, you know, what I always say is, like, I'm not a business coach. I operate in a very small but important slice, which is, like, how do you make the money, right? And you're in the business. And I think that when you're able to say, like, this is exactly where I play, I think there's so much power in that, and it builds confidence on with the client, yep. But I think what we're also talking about is, you know, just to sort of zoom out a little bit, it's like having these, like, more replicable programs or projects or what have you, or, you know, a range of replicable or things that are more replicable. Yes, you don't just like, put the hammer down and you're like, now I have all these off the shelf programs, right? Because it's hard to sell that when the rest of the stuff is, you know, in the in the business development process is not dialed in. So this is, this is all part of a system saying, you can't say, I don't know. I just, I love the connectivity of it. You have to sort of have all the pieces in place and sort of dialed in. I think

Carrie Bornstein 36:40

one other thing that I will say has been really important is, like sort of the ending of the sales process that has been, I realize now very important is the whole concept of the executive debrief, of touching base with a Client as the project is ending to like, to review how, like, how did this go, and what did you get out of this, and what's still lingering, or what, what's still on, what's on your mind now, all of those things, like, honestly, that Never occurred to me to do before, and now it's brought me, like, there are multiple extensions that I've gotten because I've, like, taken the initiative to say, like, Let's touch base. And it's led to people, on multiple occasions, saying, like, you know, here's where I think we're going next. Do you want to talk about what it would look like for me to help you with that. Yeah, sure. What's on your mind? Like, it's just, like, so natural. Of like, wow, that was a game changer.

Leah Neaderthal 37:51

I love it. It's so it's and you're, you're right. Like, that part of the process is probably the most overlooked part of the sales process. It's the loyalty part. And, yeah, it's so much easier to continue working with a client who loves you then try to get a new client, right?

Carrie Bornstein 38:07

Yep, okay. Oh, that makes me so happy. Harry. Fill in the blank for me. I almost didn't work with you, or I almost didn't join the program, because two reasons. One was I was concerned about coming from the nonprofit space, if I was going to, like, feel like I was with my people in that way, if it was going to be like all corporate or just like a different language that I didn't understand, because it's like all corporate stuff and and I have not found that to be the case at all. Like, I'm, I'm glad I got over that one very, you know, it's just like, Yeah, I think, you know, you you said to me, like, you still need people to sell to, and you need to know how to land them. And I was like, Yeah, that's true. So yeah, that that was a concern. And, like, the other one was the cost, I will say, like, you know, that was, like, scary to think about investing in myself in that way. I mean, not the concept of investing, like, I like that, but like, actually what it would take to do that. And I was, like, just really trying to figure out, like, was this, you know, a worthwhile risk to take or not. And what tipped me over the edge to doing it was when I when you talk about the 30 day love it or leave it piece, if you, like, make a good faith effort, and you're involved and like, you're not loving it, then like, okay, you know that that's all right. So I was like, okay, that I haven't told you this. I was like, I'm gonna haul ass through these first 30 days. I marked my calendar of, like, when, you know when the time limit was up. And I was like, I am just gonna, like, not with the intention of, Oh, I'm gonna drop out after that. But I was like, let me like, play. Through it and see if it feels worthwhile. And if it doesn't, then okay, I'll drop. And I was like, I did not know that, yeah. So quickly I was like, Oh, this is, yeah, this is gonna be worth it. Like, like, as soon as I got into the portal and, like, saw what was actually there and started going through the lessons. I was like, Yeah, this is there's no way. But like, I was like, I I went through a lot of the content up front because I was just trying to, like, cram it in and see what I could get. It was just like, Okay, if I need, I don't I want to shift this from, like, it being a risk that I am taking on this program to feeling like, good about taking on this program. So I was like, okay, like, that was just what made the difference to me, being that I had an out if I needed it.

Leah Neaderthal 40:57

Like, I mean, that point is, like, hopefully people either they know or they not, or they don't. Oh yeah, you know it's like, if you know this is wrong for you, figure that out quickly,

Carrie Bornstein 41:07

for sure. Yeah. But so that that enabled me to feel comfortable taking the risk, because I like, also, I think in the nonprofit world, it's so easy to fall into the whole scarcity mindset, like you're totally operating from scarcity, and it's like, it's a little bit of a badge of honor, of, like, look what we can do on such a tight budget. And like, your gift means so much because it, you know, we're able to to, like, make such an impact, but it, it means that there's, there's not as much of a culture of investment and like, like, thinking about how things can pay off. And so I totally came from that. I mean, my perspective has shifted so much on just like, you know, what I wish I knew then, but this idea of of investing in me that would have a real, concrete payoff was, like, foreign it's like a foreign language. It was that was a very big hurdle for me to get over, and worth every penny. Like, I really, I really believe that now, totally worth it,

Leah Neaderthal 42:17

yeah, oh, that's so that's so great. And, yeah, what a huge mindset shift. I mean, I'm sure that translates into a lot of other things in the business. Yep, you know, it's not just like, oh, Carrie Bornstein made money. It's like, no, no, no. There's a whole mindset thing that happened here.

Carrie Bornstein 42:31

Yep, as it turned out, I think it was like, maybe a week after that deadline of like, when I was just, like, locked in. Now, I think it was about a week after that that my husband lost his job. And yeah, it was like, right then, and I was like, Oh, my God. It was like scary, because making that financial commitment after then he was out of work, and so that was super scary. And looking back on it, we would have been so screwed if I did not do this program like it's it has. It has enabled these past months, while he's been looking for work, which, thank God now He's like, he's got some income coming in. But it has shifted these past months from being like, what would have been total panic, to like, okay, so that that has been huge.

Leah Neaderthal 43:30

Oh, wow. I didn't know it was around that same time. Yeah, yeah, I'm so I know you are, but I'm so glad you were here. Yep, Carrie, what would you say to someone who's in the position that you were back then at the beginning of this process, what advice would you give her

Carrie Bornstein 43:50

join this program? I don't know. Like, this is, like, sounds like such a lame response, because I'm like, I literally am. Just like, I don't know what else to say. But like, well, and I

Leah Neaderthal 43:58

told you, remember at the beginning of this, before we started recording, I was like, Listen, you did listen, you don't, don't say that. You don't, you know, you don't, yeah, yeah, but yeah. But if that's the honest answer, that's the honest

Carrie Bornstein 44:08

answer. I mean, listen, like, reach out to people, get support. Like, when people are just starting out with consulting, I have more substantial advice, of, like, just talk to everybody you know, like, I know that I started listening to this before I ever joined this, you know, I think that's my biggest advice for somebody who's like, first for starting out, is just talk to everyone you can, of like, who people who are consulting already, but also the potential types of clients that you want to work with to, Like, just tell them what you're thinking about and ask how it lands, how it resonates, get feedback. Like I had so many conversations at the very beginning that were so useful to just like, helping me develop my thinking about what I was doing and how I would do it. So I think that's my best advice for, like, early early on. But. But then yeah, I mean, I it's just yeah, you had said to me, like you had said to me when we spoke, you know, like, it often takes people three to five years to, like, Get up, get up to the speed on their own that, you know, when people join the program, like, they just have access to it right away. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you're a barber. You're telling me I need a haircut. Okay? Like, but it's actually true. Believe Leah if she says something to you, believe it. I don't know that's that's my advice. I love the healthy skepticism. I love it. Oh yeah, I've got, I've got a good dose of that.

Leah Neaderthal 45:41

Carrie. Where can people find you?

Carrie Bornstein 45:43

I am on LinkedIn, Carrie Bornstein, and my website is Carrie bornstein.com and I would be so happy to connect with people who are interested.

Leah Neaderthal 45:57

Awesome, awesome. Carrie, thank you so much for being

Carrie Bornstein 45:59

here My pleasure. Thank you so much for asking me on and for everything that you are doing to support everyone. It's huge.

Leah Neaderthal 46:09

All right, what a great conversation, right? So if Carrie said anything that spoke to you, I hope you'll reach out and let her know. And of course, if there's someone you think should hear this episode, please share it with them. So there are so many great nuggets here, and I always like to pull out one lesson that you can apply to your business. And one lesson I hope you take from this episode is this that you do not have to work more or sacrifice your time, energy or happiness to make more money or have a bigger impact in your consulting business. And I say this because there's a really, you know, persistent belief out there, especially among women, that if you want to grow your business or do more meaningful work, then you're going to have to grind for it, you're going to have to hustle, and then it's going to cut into and really come at the expense of your peace, your family, your time, your sanity, Right? And that belief, it's just not true, but if you believe it's true, then it'll definitely hold you back from learning the very strategies that can make sure it doesn't happen, right? And this is actually one of the biggest shifts that we help women make inside the academy, because once you learn how to increase the value of your work and how to lead more strategic projects and had a price based on the value that your work creates. You can grow your income and your impact without burning yourself out. And that's really the job of value based pricing, and it's why it's like, literally the second thing we teach in the academy. Because when you shift the way you position your work and the way you price it, then a lot of things start to change. And if you want to hear more about how to do this, you know, check out episodes 97 to 98 where I walk you through exactly what that looks like. And, of course, if you want to learn how to do it step by step, with our help, then apply for the Academy. It's smart. Gets paid.com/academy and Carrie's story is just one of so many examples we see every day of women making this shift, and they're doing it in real time, you know, growing their income, leading bigger and more impactful work, and doing it in a way that feels sustainable and aligned and just feels really good. And, I mean, that's why we tell these stories, to show you what's possible. Because there are women out there who are running consulting businesses, you know, in this way, but they're mostly hidden, and all of that sort of how they run their business is opaque to us, right? That's really the job of this podcast is to show you what's possible. And I know it's probably easy to sit here and think, Well, you know, she can do it, but that wouldn't work for me, right? Or that would never work for my business, or that would never work for my industry, or that would never work for my clients. Or, you know, my clients are to this, or that they won't pay this, or they won't do this, or whatever. Or I'm so, you know, unique that there's no way this will work. It's so easy to, like, hook into that type of thinking, but that's still the limited belief, you know, working overtime in your brain. I mean, listen, it's your brain doing what brains do, right, trying to keep you safe by keeping you the same. But safe doesn't build the business that you want. Safe keeps you under charging. It keeps you stuck in small projects and it keeps you burning out. So if you hear yourself thinking, you know that won't work for me. Just know that that's the belief talking, not reality. And if you want something different, you've got to believe something different. So again, if you're holding on to that belief that you'll have to work harder and have more stress in order to make more money, let this episode be your permission slip to let that belief go and to start really pursuing the path that actually leads to more of what you want. Okay, so I'd love to hear what stood out to you from this episode. So take your biggest aha post about it on LinkedIn and tag me. I'd love to see it. I'd love to cheer you on and give you a signal boost. So thanks so much for listening. And I'll see you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai