Saying no to small asks: how to become a true strategic partner

Speaker 1 0:02

So if it's something that's like, really not right for me, then that means that I'm now spending time on this stupid thing that's either not making me the money that I need to be making want to be making, or it's like, not the kind of work I want to be doing, and I'm prioritizing that, instead of prioritizing the other stuff that's going to build where I want to be.

Leah Neaderthal 0:27

Welcome to the smart gets paid podcast with me. Leah Neaderthal, I help women land higher paying clients in their independent consulting businesses. But I've never been a salesperson. My background is in corporate marketing, and when I started my first consulting business, I learned pretty quickly that it's about 1000 times harder to sell your own stuff than it is to sell someone else's. So I taught myself how to do it, and I created the sales approach that I now share with my clients so they can feel more comfortable in the sales process, get more of the right clients and get paid way more for every client contract. So whether your client contracts are $5,000 $100,000 or more, if you want to work with more of the clients you love, do more of the work you love, and get paid more than you ever thought you could, then you're in the right place. Let's do it together. Thanks for tuning in, and don't forget to rate, review and share. Hey there. Leah, here, and thanks for joining me in this episode. I hope that wherever you are, wherever you're listening to this, I hope you're having a great week, making some good progress in your business and taking some time for you. So you know that moment when a potential client comes to you with a really specific ask, like, you know, we need someone to XYZ. Or can you just do like, this thing for us? Or can you just do this tactic? And part of you, you know, wants to say yes, because, I mean, hey, it's work, it's money, and you're good at that thing. But another part of you is thinking, This isn't really the work I want to be doing. I don't want to just be doing the tactics I want to do, like the bigger strategic work, because you can see what's going on. Usually you can see the bigger issues at play. And you know that the real problem isn't that one thing they asked you to do. It's much bigger than that. And frankly, with your experience, you know that even if you do this one thing, they're still not going to be where they need to be or where they could be. And so now you're stuck in that moment that so many women consultants find themselves in. Do I say yes to the thing that they're asking for that tactic, or do I try to guide them towards something bigger, something more strategic, and something that's going to actually solve their problems. So if you've ever felt that tension between doing the thing they asked for and doing the strategic thing, you know they need. You're not alone, and this episode is for you. You're going to listen in on a conversation I had with a client who's navigating this exact challenge, and we talk about how to reframe these small asks into meaningful strategic work, how to position yourself as a strategic partner, and how to start owning the role that you really want to play with your clients. So I want to send a huge thank you to my client for allowing me to share this conversation with you. So take a listen, and at the end, I'll come back and share a lesson that you can apply to your business.

Speaker 1 3:24

And then the other place that I think I could just use, like, a little bit more kind of talking through and refinement is around ideal clients, and what happens when they come to me with the tactical and now I'm like, Oh, I actually want to think bigger than this and think about the problem that I'm solving for you, and, like, just how to navigate that piece. Like, how do I, how do I decide when it's worth it? To try to help them think differently or bigger, or to, like, try to move it to a place of, maybe a tactic, being a part of a bigger picture of a problem that I'm solving for them. I'm a little bit of a conundrum in some ways, because I'm, like, on the one hand, very good at thinking on my feet and like responding in the moment and just kind of being in a situation and like figuring it out. But I also really benefit from time to think things through afterwards, because my tendency is to, like, say yes, and do all the things and give and whatever, and like, I think that there are times where maybe on the column thinking like, I don't, I don't think this is right. This is like, not what I is not what I want to be doing. Somebody should be doing. And I find myself moving things forward inadvertently, when I'm like, Wait, why am I? Why am I leading this place I want to lead them. Like, how to, how to both keep that in mind in the moment, but also like, like. How do I not forget about the focus that want to be? What is the focus?

Leah Neaderthal 5:06

Yeah, totally clarified, or just complicated. But no, no, that's really helpful. So one thing I'll just, I'll say, before we do anything, is like you can take on any client for any reason at any time, right? And so I just want you know, I know you've done all this work on like, your ideal client, and we've you've done value based scope and pricing and all that stuff and like, but I will say that, like nobody here will judge you for just being I'm taking on this work, right? I just want to put that out there, but I know that you still want, where we're going is the ideal, right? And so a couple things to think about. You know, part of this is like, when you, especially when you get into the sales conversation framework, is, I think, a lot of times without a really strong like sales conversation framework, or a way to talk about what you do a lot of women, I'm not saying you've done this, but it's very common, ask a few questions and then just sort of say yes to whatever they want. And don't actually, like, make the turn to be like, Okay, well, would it help if I tell you about but what I do, yeah, and we have a very clear moment in the framework where we do that, yeah,

Speaker 1 6:20

like, in the last day or so, I think,

Leah Neaderthal 6:22

yeah, that's the opener where you establish, like, this is what it is, the value I provide. This is how I work with people, or whatever. And so after you do that, then you know if it's really, like, the not the right thing or not the right thing for right now, or whatever, you've already established what you do. And so you can say, Okay, but what that means is, what you're asking for is not really what I do. However, I know people who do that, so why don't I, you know, put you in touch with those people, or whatever. I'm happy to make a referral. It's it can really be as simple as that, like I used to do that all the time before. I mean, at this point, I've been sort of beating the same drum for a long time in my marketing. And so I fewer people who come to me for things I don't do. You know, every now and then I have people who come to me for stuff. So where I play is this, even that phrase where I play? It's, you know, this is my sandbox, right? Like, there are some soft boundaries, I suppose, but like, where I play is right here. So what you're asking for is really not, not what I do is that my focus. And you know what, though, like, people really appreciate that, yeah, because the under, under current message, or whatever is, I'm not going to try to tell you something that I am not the best for. And so oftentimes what happens is those people end up like referring you to more people or, you know you're they're just fans of you forever. So it can be as simple as

Speaker 1 7:53

that, yeah, I think actually the bigger challenge is like remembering that for myself totally where, like, when I am very clear on what I do and where I want to be, like, then I'm like, okay, I can, I can deliver. I can deliver the messaging. I think probably what's getting me tripped up is this scarcity mentality of like, Oh, my God, they might want to pay me. Like, cool. What do I need to do? You know? Like, tell me how to jump and I'll be there for the paycheck, you know. And, like, no way. Like, I really do believe that that's undermining my ultimate efforts, and it's taking me away from the other places. Like, if it's if it's something that's like, really not right for me, then that means that I'm now spending time on this stupid thing that's either not making me the money that I need to be making want to be making, or it's like just not the kind of work I want to be doing, and I'm prioritizing that instead of prioritizing the other stuff that's going to build where I want to be. So it's like that short term, no for the longer term, yes, like, just kind of staying centered on that myself,

Leah Neaderthal 9:11

right? I think the phrase that I always use, and you you know, may be helpful to put on a post it, or whatever is, you know, some money is expensive. That's right. I've heard you say that before. Yeah, not all money is the same. Some money is expensive. And right in in the moment, it might be like, Yeah, I can do that. But you know, I will say that just because they ask for that thing, we have to sort of resist the automatic Yes, right? I'm going to do that thing, and here's my price for that thing, because when you start pricing based on, like, a tactic or what have you, then it's it just drives the price down. You get into hourly rates or deliverables or whatever, all the things we want to get away from. And so one thing I want you to remember is that you're the boss. Yeah, and you can do what they ask for in ways that work for you. So, you know, you can say, Okay, I do that thing. It's, it's within my, my service, that where we start here, and we do this type of thing, and then we do that, and we get to this, because you can't do, you know, see, without doing a first, you know, and that program or that service or whatever starts at x, is that what you were expecting, right? So, again, it's like, I hear what you want. I have something that might work, but I'm going to do it my way, yeah,

Speaker 1 10:35

so maybe I can go through a specific scenario and get your thoughts about how I like, I'd love to share how I handled it and see, like, maybe what I could have done differently. You should have learned or not? I don't know. Yeah. So I'm doing like, kind of part two of a project now that's like, in my mind, like coming in drips and jabs. So like, last spring, last summer, I was brought into

Leah Neaderthal 11:07

Okay, so here she's just talking about a client she used to work with for a couple minutes, which I've removed for anonymity. All right, let's keep going. And they basically are

Speaker 1 11:17

like, have been like at each other and, like, differing views on everything, and they, like, can't have meetings without yelling at each other. So I came in to help, and from the first like, intake call, I was like, yeah, like, I had a hunch on the phone that there was, like, one person in particular who was the problem. And she was like, you know, very tactical. Like, you know, I want you to, like, come in and meet with each of these people and figure out what's going on, and then we'll do two sessions together. And I was like, kind of like, okay, fine. It was, like, very prescribed and, like, and a lot of it worked. It was good. And, like, a lot of the dynamic did shift. And then she came back to me now, like a month ago, and was like, this one person is still a major problem. And I'm like, Yeah, I know, because you know at the beginning, right? And so she said, I would like you to come in and help design a meeting structure for us so that we can have productive weekly meetings together without like, things exploding. And I was like, okay, it like, and I suspect that there's probably a bigger issue at play, like, this isn't just about, like, you need the meeting agenda. There's like, deeper stuff. And basically what I ended up writing into the proposal was like, Yes, I can come do this, and I'm going to deliver to you a roadmap of recommendations for next steps, because I might uncover something, you know, things during these meetings that's like, part of a bigger problem. So I was like, I can't get away with, like, just, at least not even, like, sharing what I think so. So so that's what I'm doing. And I'm like, making this whole like recommendations, but, but I guess, like, she came to me with, like, the next step in a larger process, with the idea that, like, Okay, if that step goes well, we could always take it the next step and the next step. And I'm thinking, like, I'm looking at the end goal, and how do we get there? Because that's really where you want to go. That is a much bigger project, and that's probably, you know, that would be with a much bigger price tag. And so, like, how do I sell that when her head is, like, just really in this, like, itty bitty tactical move,

Leah Neaderthal 13:38

right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 13:41

And like, do I risk losing all of it? Because at the end of the day, like, I am fine to, like, do this piece. It's not, like, no money, it's not terrible money, but, like, it's not, it's a piece I don't know. So like, would you recommend anything different with that kind of situation?

Leah Neaderthal 13:58

This is tricky. This is tricky, especially because of how you started the relationship, right? And so, because what we're describing is like, you're trying to change the dynamic which is already in place, yeah, I think one thing is, clients don't often know how to truly solve the problem. They might have ideas about how to solve the problem. I feel like she's sitting in the in the cockpit of a plane being like, let's press this button. This button, or wait, that's that button. But she doesn't know how to fly the whole plane. You know how to fly the whole plane? Yeah? And you know, with compassion, it's like she's trying to do the best she can with what she has, and she doesn't have all the tools that you have. So what could you have done? Well, it's not even, what could you have done? I think it's like the question is, where are some opportunities in this process? Right? When somebody names a specific problem that is a perfect use for an Etsy offer, which haven't gotten to yet, you're doing it in the right order, so it's fine, but just but, but an. The benefit of an Etsy offer is it really responds to the need in the moment. The Etsy is how we take the tactical request and turn into a value offer. We do it on the fly, I mean, without like, spending six weeks, like thinking about what the service should be or whatever it's like. So you know the when somebody says, we have this need, you can say, Look, I'm, you know, either I have something or I'm working on something to solve that need, but you put into it, what you think goes into it, right? And so it could be the like, I don't know, just making this up, but like, conflict free meetings program or whatever. And it might have some of the things that she wants, right? Like, you need an agenda for a meeting, but you also need to do, maybe do some discovery, and have some one on one conversations, and you need to have a conflict resolution workshop or whatever. I mean, I don't know if any of these in your toolbox, but, like, Do you know what I'm saying? You're back to like, I hear the need that you have, and here's what I believe it will take so that you're not just being like, Okay, I'll give you the agenda. Because I think the one thing you could say is, like, I can come and give you an agenda, but I just know for a fact that that will not solve the problem. I've never seen a five step agenda solve a major team conflict problem. Like, I've never seen that be successful. And so what I have seen be successful is these things and so, and then you put a price, and you put a price tag on it that's commensurate with the value. Like, what would it really look like for them if they can reduce this conflict? Like, this major conflict?

Speaker 1 16:40

Yes. So maybe that's somewhat of like, what I did already, because, like, I said to her, like, I want to, like, deliver some recommendations. I want to meet with the two of you together to, like, talk through this agenda, and then I want to build in some thought partnership afterwards, so that you can check in with me to see how it's going, and we can, like, troubleshoot later, or whatever like, to some extent, there was, like, I built in more around it.

Leah Neaderthal 17:10

So I think like for you in that situation, I think like coming with recommendations for next steps is still a suggestion that alone may have value. But the truth is, and I bet if you thought about it, you would know some next steps, maybe not all the next steps like so I think recommendations are not a sure thing. So you might come back to and be like, I want this recommendation. Give me that one again, yeah, as opposed to, you know, we will, we'll, we'll reduce conflict over a period of like, six weeks using these techniques that I, that I have, yeah, that makes sense. Like the shift there,

Speaker 1 17:54

yes, is the idea so that you are just like, if they're looking for x, and you know that what they really need is, like, a capital X, and they're looking for a lowercase like, is the idea that it's just like, you know, I'm opening up a jacket, and there's a capital x in here, which includes your small x. But like, this is what I do, and this is how I

Leah Neaderthal 18:17

work. Like, this small x is not going to get you what you want. Yeah, get what I think you're asking for is like, capital X. So let's solve that problem.

Speaker 1 18:27

There's something that's like, such a relief and so scary about that.

Leah Neaderthal 18:32

What's the relief part and what's the scary part?

Speaker 1 18:35

The relief is like an underlying belief that I'm not gonna get stuck doing something that's like, only, like piecemeal, gonna solve a little bit of a problem. Like, it's that, it's like, doing good work, which, which I really believe is like, you know, that's good for everybody, if, if it's the best work. But the scary part is, like, I think it is this still, like the scarcity piece where, like, Okay, if I think forward, like, three years from now, and let's pretend that like I have a much more stable source of income, if I just fast forward, then the idea of that is like, Okay, I'll just, you know, that's fine. Like, this is what I do, take it or take it early, not in a jerky way, but like, maybe it's the scary part is like, putting myself on the peer level there, and that's a recognition that, like, that's, I've got this, like, underlying, internalized belief of, like, not being on the peer level. And that's like the scary jump to make is, like, kind of pretending that I'm there if I'm not necessarily there.

Leah Neaderthal 19:50

You know, I think that you with the work that we're doing here. I think you are probably already there. I think that in terms of your. Skill and like your capabilities in your zone of genius, I think that you believe that you're like, totally at a peer level, right? I think it's just in this part, and like this dynamic, it is hard to change behavior and change mindset from I'll do whatever you want. I can do so many things to this is how I work. Yeah, that's happening here, and it feels uncomfortable, yeah, but it probably feels a little risky, yep, like you could have said yes to this teeny, tiny thing that you know, and your heart of hearts won't actually solve the problem, but you tried to go for this bigger thing that will solve the problem. And what if they say no, right, right? And it's like they still could say no, but trying to solve the real problem is better than like not trying to solve the real problem. Yes, you know, and I think, I think it's also maybe you do come from such a like service mindset, this is really how you make impact, how you impact your clients is not by saying yes to all the little things they ask for, right? For sure. All right. So if you've been listening to this and you're thinking, this is so me, like clients come to me with these tactical asks, and I know I could help them so much more if they've just let me. Then here's what I want you to take away from this episode. You can shift that conversation. You can help a client see that what they think they need might not be the whole picture, and that you have the strategic abilities and a strategic insight to help them solve the real problem, and then you can start getting more of the clients who actually want and value your strategic smarts. But I will say that shift isn't going to happen by accident. It happens when you start positioning your work for value, what we call the painkiller. It happens when you stop waiting for clients to tell you what they need, and instead, you tell them how you work. It happens when you lead sales conversations and do great discovery and can lead the client to the next step. And it happens when you start to do marketing and actually get visible and talking to the clients who have the problem you solve, not just waiting for the clients who happen to come your way. And so when you can do that, when you really start leading the types of clients who show up in your business, begin to change. And you go from getting these tactical requests to being chosen as a trusted expert, you stop being asked to just do the execution and start being brought in for strategy. And that's exactly the shift that we help women consultants make inside the academy, because it's not just about learning how to sell. It's about learning how to lead in your business and in the sales process so that you can get paid for the work you really want to do. So if you're ready for more of the right clients and more of that strategic, you know, meaningful work, check out the academy at Smart gets paid.com/academy and if you'd like our help to get there faster, we're ready to help you. And so just know, you know it is possible, and it starts with conversations like these, and it grows from there. And you can do it in your business, all right, I'll see you next time.

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