Episode 6 · April 5, 2021
Your clients want to feel understood, too
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In this episode
There's a running group for women who don't look like what people picture when they hear the word runner, and the women in it stay because the coach has been where they are and they don't have to explain themselves. That's the whole subject of this call. The woman I'm talking to serves Latinx professionals, does it beautifully, and can't bring herself to say so in her messaging in case it shuts somebody out.
What you'll take away
- People stay where they don't have to explain themselves. It's why I looked for a therapist who works with LGBTQ people, and it's why women tell me they're glad I work with women. You just get it, and that's most of the value.
- Standing somewhere isn't the same as turning people away. I say I help women running consulting and coaching businesses. Have I worked with men? Of course. Nobody gets stopped at the door.
- The fear underneath was about being inclusive, not about demand. She wasn't worried there'd be too few clients. She was worried that naming who she serves would read as excluding everyone else.
- "You can't muscle it." A coach told me that years ago while I was staying up late trying to force something that wasn't clicking. Write down what you have and put it down for a bit.
- It was never the knowledge, it was the confidence. Her own discovery calls told her so, every time, and that changed what her messaging needed to say.
In this conversation
The full transcript, in sections. Open any one to read it.
Doing something together without being together
00:54
You're listening to the Smart Gets Paid Podcast with me, Leah Neaderthal. I help women land higher paying clients in their B2B consulting and coaching businesses, but I've never been a sales person. My background is in corporate marketing. And when I started my first consulting business, I learned pretty quickly that it's about a thousand times harder to sell your own stuff than it is to sell someone else's. So I taught myself how to do it, and I created a sales approach that feels comfortable, makes you feel confident, and it works consistently. And now I teach women how to land higher paying clients in their B2B consulting and coaching businesses. So whether your client contracts are $2,000 or $200,000, if you want to work with more of the clients you love, do more of the work you love, and get paid more than you ever imagined. Then you're in the right place. Let's do it together. Welcome to Smart Gets Paid.
Hey there! Leah here, and welcome to this episode of the Smart Gets Paid Podcast. So it's the dead of winter. And I don't know about you but I’m really missing running outside. Actually, I'm just missing being outside and not being freezing because with the pandemic being outside was kind of my saving grace. And I know it's been that way for a lot of people, you know, just being able to take a walk and clear your head. You might even be listening to this episode while you're walking or running outside. And when I was running, I would run in the park, near my house in Brooklyn and I started to observe something interesting. I've noticed that being outside and around other people, it's just so nice to just do an activity near other people, you know, cause we can't really hang out with everyone we want to. We can't be with people inside.
We can't have people over, but there's something really nice about being outside, running with, but I guess not with other people. For doing something together, even if we're not together. And I was just sort of reflecting on that as I was putting together this episode and I was reminded of another running group that's about community and a very specific type of runner. It's a group of women who are runners, but as they’ll tell you themselves, they don't look like you're a quote unquote typical runner, but that's really the point. They're members of a group called Not Your Average Runner, which is a group for runners of all sizes led by a woman named Jill Angie who's a plus sized runner and a certified running coach and an author. The women in Jill's program might call themselves plus size or curvy you're fat or voluptuous. And they might start running in order to improve their fitness or gain confidence or achieve a personal goal.
A running group for women who don't look like runners
02:33
But they come to Jill because Jill understands them. She's been a plus size runner for over 20 years and she knows what it feels like to feel like you have to run just to burn calories or just to lose weight and really how incredibly unsatisfying and unmotivating that is. And she knows what it's like to be a plus size runner in a society and in a fitness culture that only values thinness. So when the members of her community find Jill and they find Not Your Average Runner, they don't have to worry about being judged for not being super fit or for running at whatever speed they run or pursuing whatever goal they're pursuing or really not pursuing a goal at all. They can relax because there's a base level of understanding there because they feel understood. And isn't that what everyone wants, you know, to feel understood, to be able to be yourself and to have people who already get it.
Not having to explain yourself
03:25
So you don't have to explain yourself. I mean, it's the reason why, when I was looking for a therapist, I looked specifically for somebody who worked with LGBTQ people and it's why women tell me how glad they are that I work with just women, because they say, you just get it. And this topic of being understood, this is the topic we're talking about in the call you're going to hear today. The woman I'm talking to today is a Latino woman who’s a leadership consultant and coach. And she's grappling with how to talk about what she does when she works with so many types of clients. But as you'll hear, her real struggle is actually something deeper and speaks to who she is as a person. This conversation is a one-on-one coaching call from my Signed program. So I want to say a special thanks to this student for allowing me to share this conversation with you, take a listen to our call and at the end, I'll come back and share how you can apply a lesson from this call to your business.
This episode is sponsored by the One-Page Sales Strategy. So when you think of a business development strategy for a consulting or coaching business, you might picture a complicated flow chart with boxes and arrows and lots of steps, but it actually doesn't have to be complicated. In fact, the strategy that powers your entire consulting or coaching business, your work, and your revenue can be just one page. And when you have that strategy, you can start to clearly see where to spend your time, turn off shiny object syndrome and get to work, getting the clients you want in your business. Because if you're like the woman I work with, you're not afraid of hard work, but you want it to be the right work. So whether you already work with businesses as your clients, or if you want to start, get your copy of the One-Page Sales Strategy and start to create your simple, elegant sales strategy for your consulting or coaching business. Get yours today at onepagesalesstrategy.com.
Three groups, and a business that grew the other way
05:09
Welcome to your Signed Quick start call. Well, the purpose of this call is to really tackle what's on your plate or what's on your mind right now, so that we can get you some quick results and you can move through it. So what would make this a valuable conversation for you?
I think just, I'm sorry, if I leave the door open, he comes and
Oh my God, let me see your dog
Say hi. So I think my biggest challenge right now, so when I launched my business and I was working on this, I thought, well, I'm just gonna go and do, . . . does management consulting. And then I have some opportunities to do coaching, career coaching and leadership coaching. And then I was like, okay, I have done coaching in the past. I've been certified for career coaching and workforce development.So let me just do that type of work too. And after doing like a strategic plan and looking at what's happening right now, I was like, I'm not going to have a lot of coaching clients. I have stronger relationships with nonprofits. So management consulting should be super easy, but it has been the complete opposite. I've been very successful with the leadership coaching. I did do a business plan, but when I worked in my business canvas and then like, built in a brand and my website, it was very focused for my business to business. And now I am fully booked with leadership coaching, exploring doing group coaching.And it was like, it was because of this program in you. So I am more than happy to share testimonials.
Oh, I'm so glad.
Once I brought my process and saw the biggest gaps and then did an analysis on how I was connecting with clients and how I was moving them through my sales process, it was very clear to understand. Like, I'm more than happy to show you where my leads are coming from, where I'm being the most successful, and then making sure I'm using my CRM the best way because then I can track the whole process and I can be more intentional during my discovery calls.
I love it. I love it. So you've been surprised that these people who you thought would not invest in themselves would not want leadership coaching to have not only come to you. And now you're fully booked. So where does that leave you?
So I have like three market segments. So the first one is women who, and I'm also getting men now, I have like five men for discovery calls. They're all Latinos but I have the first one is, you know, professionals of color who have never done management, have extensive skill set, and transferable skills to go into management and are looking to move into that space. And that's an area where they're more interested in doing like a one or two coaching sessions and pay for them. Most of them are either unemployed or not getting paid enough. Then I have this middle ground where it’s people; like women of color who are professionals, who are leaders, are either senior leaders, or executives, or long time working in management positions and are ready to take the next step and don't know what the next step is. And then I would say the third bucket is people of color who have done leadership for a long time and now want to explore whether it's consulting or freelance work and need someone to support them in those areas. But it's also like they still want to keep their nine to five. It's like what I call it, It's like they're looking to follow their dreams on their five to nine.
Yeah.
Well they want someone that can help them in their careers, but also with a business.
So sort of making that transition or being able to do both?
Chasing the dream on your five to nine
09:31
Being able to do both. So they still want to grow within their nine to five. They still want to continue their full-time careers and then do freelance work or consulting part-time. And those are the ones who are willing to pay $2,000.
Okay. So how can I help you the most right now
I would love it if you can review my value base messaging for that group, because I think if I market for that group and I have, the thing is that I do it very easily when I'm talking to people. So I've been doing speaking engagements with different communities of Latinas and Latinx professionals almost every week. And that's the people that I keep attracting. I love some help with my value based messaging.
Okay, definitely. So what's interesting about the commonality of these three groups; the professionals of color who are looking to get into management, women of color who are already leaders and who want to take a next step, and leaders of color who want to take the next step almost out of the professional life, right. What's common about these is that it's like helping people identify what the next step is and confidently take it.
Oh, that sounds nice.
And what's unique about you also is that, you know, you work with Latinx and also other people of color, is that right? Or is the focus on Latinx?
I've been marketing Latinx groups and I do have clients that are white women and I'm not sure I want to say in my messaging that it’s just for Latinas. And rather than just focus my marketing there, I don't know if that will help or not help.
"I'm not sure I want to say it's just for Latinas"
11:32
Well, tell me when you think about, let's say you did go full force. You know, you are the leadership consultant for Latina women. How does that feel?
It feels good. That's what I wanted.
So if it excites you and it also feels good, what's the worst that can happen? What fears come up?
I don't know that I won't find enough people or that I'm not being inclusive.
You're not being inclusive because you're not working with a majority group?
Just even like other people of color, because I haven't found many coaches that focus on the needs of people of color.
Yeah. I think that this is a space that you could own. You could be the leadership coach for Latinx and also Latina women if you wanted. Right. And the thing about this, when you do that is, it actually makes it easier to do what you want. It actually makes it easier for people to refer you because they know you. Right? When they see somebody who has that need, they know you. When people find you, you know what you want when people find you is, you want them to say, “Oh my God, thank God I found her!” You know, “I've been looking for her and I didn't even know it.” Right? Or “I have been looking for her. And I haven't found her yet until now.” Right. And it makes it easier for people to say YES, because they know that you are specifically tuned to their particular needs.
Naming who you serve doesn't close the door
13:06
You know, it's different than say having somebody who's like a general leadership coach, right? Like, middle-aged white guy, leadership coach. Versus somebody who has been in their shoes, who knows what it's like, who isn't going to sort of whitewash, let's say, the reality of what it's like to be a Latina woman in corporate America. Right. And so I think it's a really strong position. And the thing about it is let's say that you stand in this space, right? You say, this is me. I do this. I solve this problem for these people. What I'm saying that you're never going to ever take on any client who doesn't fit that. Right. A Latino man comes to you and you're like, you're not like, no, get out of here. You know, like automatic, no, or a white woman or whatever, you can still choose to take on whoever you want. Right. You're just sort of, this is just who you are telling the world that you work with.
Okay.
So I talk about, I help women who are running consulting and coaching businesses. Right? Have I worked with men? Absolutely. Do I work with teams and companies? Yeah. I do that too, because it's not an automatic no. Right? If you went on my website and you're like, oh, we detect that you are a man. Get out of here! Right? You still can choose whoever you want.
Okay.
But when you do that, it makes it easier for the people who you want or who need you to find you and say yes to you. So let's talk about your messaging then.
Okay. I have it on my phone because I haven't been sleeping. Now,I want to write value based messaging for everything. Uh . . .
"You can't muscle it"
14:49
You haven’t been sleeping because you're writing notes, and you're writing notes on your phone for value based messaging?
Yes.
Oh, man. Well, I, I mean, I love that you're so into value based messaging, but how can we get you sleeping?
I slept yesterday. But the other day I was like, I need to think this . . . (laughs)
It's so funny. I once worked with a coach who, I was not getting something, you know? It was really, it just wasn't clicking. And I was working on it all the time and staying up late and all of that. And she's like, you can't muscle it. If you muscle it, it won't work. You know? So sometimes you have to get some thoughts down and just sort of leave it for a second. I just don't want you to stress yourself out feeling like you have to muscle this.
Yeah. Okay. That's good to know. So I love, I wrote down next step, take the next step and confidently take it. What I wrote was I help leaders go from dreamers to entrepreneurs while still building successful careers.
From dreamers to entrepreneurs
15:59
Okay. Walk me through the thinking behind that.
I was thinking on this group of people who I just looked at all my notes from discovery calls. They all say, because I have this dream of working with this company as a consultant, or I have this dream of designing t-shirts and doing it through drop shipping. Right. They all talk about like, I can't stop thinking about this dream of doing something else. And when we talk about their careers, like some say, it's about stability. Like, no, I have kids. I have stability. I have pushed that conversation a little bit. But most of them say, I really like what I do and I want to continue doing it. Or like, I want to work myself to be the CEO of this company or X company. So it's about this dream of doing something else, but being happy with what they're doing right now. Career-wise
Right. It seems to me that really speaks to the third group that you were talking about.
Yeah.
They've been in leadership. They want the next thing. So going very directly at that group puts you in a place. Right. It puts you in a place in their life or in their career when you are senior and you want to sort of also essentially do consulting on the side. Right. Just to say it in a very, not cute way. Right. Like I help senior leaders develop consulting businesses on the side. Right. Period. That's a very, just basic way of saying that, because that's what you're saying, that's the problem you solve. The problem you solve is that you don't know these people and they don't know how to sort of make that leap. Right? Does it feel like you're sort of leaving the other people behind?
Yeah. I think that has been the biggest challenge is trying to encompass a larger group. And that's why I didn't want to call it executive coaching or career coaching. Maybe that's why I need to talk about, It's about what leadership means to you and developing a path to that. Because to me it's so powerful that people have agency and that like what leadership means to me should be my priority rather than what leadership means to everyone else.
Right. Well, for some people, leadership means sort of getting into a management position. In some places, it means being in a leadership position. For some people, it could mean continuing their leadership career, but also being a leader in another venue. Right? As a consultant.
Yeah. And I've coached staff in the past who were people that had been case managers for 20 years. They didn't want to be a director. They didn't want to be a manager. What they were focusing on is like doing other projects where they would be able to explore leadership within the same role. Like they were like, I love case manager. I want to be the case manager until I die. But what I want is newer projects and continue to challenge myself. And that is leadership to them.
Right.
To me like that, that piece is important. So I think that's why the group can be so broad.
Even if you're helping people at different levels, do different things. Right? Based on their definition of leadership or where they want to take their career, I think that there is a commonality that lies underneath it and that's a value based messaging. Right? It's sort of that going sideways. Like we talked about, instead of saying like, I help senior leaders become executives, I help executives become consultants. Right. It's like, what is the common thread? And it's like, so I've just been taking some notes. It's like, this is going to be really wonky, right. So just bear with me and you're going to get a recording of those so you can come back. So it's, I help Latinex professionals, competently, oh God, I hate some of this language but bear with me, confidently grow their careers into management leadership and beyond right. Something like that, taking a, you know, competently take the next step in their careers, into management leadership and beyond. Beyond is such a weird word. I know it's like very pithy, but, and also is the commonality in the challenge? Like what's keeping them from doing this? So like, I help people have the, again, this is really terrible language, but like the sort of clarity, confidence, and know how to take the next step in their career.
Not the knowledge. The confidence.
20:41
Yeah. The commonality in all of them is confidence. Not even the knowledge, it’s the confidence. And then like when I asked them from, uh,in the discovery cough, tell me from one to ten, how ready are you to start doing this work? They all say seven or eight. After like a full conversation, and yeah I can't live like this any longer. And like, how would that look in your life? And you know, how would it look if you don't do this, if this just stays? And I'll call and they usually say seven or eight. And I was like, can you tell me more? And it's all about confidence. Like no one ever says I don't have the knowledge or I don't know where to find it. It's confidence. And like doing it by myself has never worked. So now I want to do it with someone else, those two things.
So, I love that. And it's good that you're really uncovering that in the discovery calls. The trap is that when you say, I hear you say, I help professionals have the confidence to take the next step. My fear is that it puts you in like a life coachy, mindset coach, in that arena? Which is fine if you are that. But I think that you want to be in a different arena, you know? So is there something that's like something else? Is it the confidence and career plan, confidence and exact steps? Is it confidence and path to, right?
Confidence, path and skills
22:13
Yeah. I would say it's the path and the skills, because in my coaching we focus on skill set. Like, building skill set, like you're having difficult conversations, this is what you're going to do. And we're going to come together and talk about difficult conversations and do scenarios. Like to me, the coaching has to be about building skill set, like building the skills to do it successfully.
Okay. So I think it's like some combination of confidence, path, and skills, right? To take the next step in their career. That feel a little bit more comfortable?
Yeah.
And I think that just to sort of bring it back, it feels a little broad. Right? But I think we've actually gotten much more specific on the problem you're solving and we've gotten more specific on who you're solving it for. You know, Latinx professionals, you help Latinx professionals do this work. Yeah. But I have a feeling that because we've sort of hit on the commonality when people read this, they will see themselves in this and that's what we want.
Yeah.
So hopefully that gives you a little bit to work with.
Yes. Yes.
Okay. How do you feel now?
Way better. Okay.
Okay, good. I’m so glad. Hopefully you'll sleep tonight. Hopefully you will be able to move forward without overthinking it and stressing yourself out.
Yeah. This is super helpful. Thank you so much.
There are enough of them out there
23:47
All right. So we talked about a few things in that call, but I want to end on one last thought. If you want to start working with the clients that you truly want, and you're worried that there aren't enough clients out there for you. I promise you, there are! If you're running a consulting or coaching business, chances are, you can't really take on an insane number of clients, but for the purposes of argument, let's just say no more than 20 in a year. Of course it's going to vary from business to business, but whatever your number is, suffice it to say, we're not talking about like a thousand clients. So let's just picture 20 clients a year. Then ask yourself, taking the United States, for example, in the entire U.S., with 32.5 million businesses and roughly 330 million people. Do you think there are 20 of your ideal clients in that group? I'd say there are. So if you're worried that you're not going to have enough work, don't be, your clients are out there waiting for you.
Hey, thanks for hanging out with me. If you liked this episode, take a second and click the subscribe button wherever you're listening to your podcasts. And you'll be notified as soon as I release a new episode. And if you're listening on Apple podcasts and so appreciate it if you took two seconds and left a rating or review. This tells Apple podcasts, hey, there's good stuff in here and they'll recommend it to other listeners who might benefit from these lessons for their business. So please take a second and add a rating or review. Thanks. So that's it for now. I'll see you next time on the Smart Gets Paid Podcast.
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