Episode 53 · November 27, 2022
What to do if you botch a call
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In this episode
A coaching call with a client who came in having had two conversations go sideways in the same month. One was an organization whose work she loved so much that she skipped the money conversation entirely, and the other was a potential client who runs hot and then cold and had just gone quiet again. We work through both, and they turn out to be nothing alike. Then at the end I get into why a warm introduction still needs a real sales process behind it.
What you'll take away
- The two situations felt identical to her and they aren't the same at all. One was hers to fix, because she got swept up in a cause and skipped a step she'd learned three weeks earlier. The other was never about her.
- It's never too late to have the money conversation. Go back and say you were thinking about your conversation and have a couple of outstanding questions, and ask for twenty minutes. Which also signals that you care.
- She'd been giving this woman guidance without getting paid for it. As long as you keep solving the problem for free, you're handing them a reason not to hire you. Resist the urge, even when you can see exactly what's wrong.
- Use the breakup email, and know what it's for. It says this doesn't seem to be a priority any more, let me know if that changes. It isn't a mind game. It's designed to set you free so you can put the attention somewhere it will land.
- You don't get clients through word of mouth. Word of mouth gets someone in the door. Getting from there to signed takes a sales process, several conversations, and knowing how to move each one along.
In this conversation
The full transcript, in sections. Open any one to read it.
Coats, and the winter that arrived overnight
0:02
I think oftentimes, because we're over here on our side, like almost kind of bracing ourselves for getting in trouble, you know, because this process is uncomfortable, it's really easy to go to that dark place. You know, I've done something wrong, I've pissed her off, I've annoyed her. She hates me now. But just remember, that's not what's happening on the other side. Welcome to the smart gets paid podcast with me. Leah Neaderthal, I help women land higher paying clients in their independent consulting businesses, but I've never been a salesperson. My background is in corporate marketing, and when I started my first consulting business, I learned pretty quickly that it's about 1000 times harder to sell your own stuff than it is to sell someone else's. So I taught myself how to do it, and I created the sales approach that I now share with my clients so they can feel more comfortable in the sales process. Get more of the right clients and get paid way more for every client contract. So whether your client contracts are $5,000 $100,000 or more. If you want to work with more of the clients you love, do more of the work you love, and get paid more than you ever thought you could, then you're in the right place. Let's do it together. Thanks for tuning in, and don't forget to rate, review and share. Hey there. Thanks for joining me. I hope that wherever you are, wherever you are listening to this, I hope you're having a good week, making some good progress in your business, and also taking some time for yourself. So it's getting to be winter, and we are definitely feeling it here in Brooklyn. I feel like overnight winter just started. We had this, like beautiful fall. We live right near Prospect Park, which is the central park of Brooklyn, and so we got to see the leaves changing, and it was just just gorgeous. And now, like overnight, we are firmly into winter, especially if the signs are any indication. And in New York, you can mark the change of the seasons by the change of the coats that people are wearing. You have, like, light jacket season, maybe a vest mixed in there to, like, just full on, heavier coat season. And then when it gets really, really cold sometime in, you know, January, February, you start to bring out the big guns, and you really start to see these, like, long, puffy, warm coats emerge. So I don't know, it's kind of interesting to watch. Maybe this is the same where you are, maybe not. But last year, we were living out on Long Island in kind of a rural area that has a lot of vineyards and, you know, just like a lot of agriculture. And there, we marked the seasons by what was going on in the fields nearby. You have, like, the grape harvest, and then the leaves fall off the grapes, and then they're just these like withered grape vines and all the other fields that are out there that have been plowed and cleared and whatnot. So that's how we marked the seasons out there. Now that we're back in the city, and, you know, in a city like ours, where everybody walks everywhere when everyone's out, you don't mark the change of the seasons by the crops. Of course, you mark it by the coats. So I hope wherever you are, you are staying warm and enjoying the start of winter also. All right, let's get into the episode. Shall we? So in this episode, I'm talking to a woman who does high level organizational development and strategy consulting for nonprofits, and she's coming off of a period of a lot of biz dev activity, a lot of business development activity, and it's paid off, and it's turned into some conversations with people who really want to work with her. But as she's getting into these conversations with these potential clients, she's running into some issues that she doesn't quite know how to navigate. I'm going to let you listen to her tell it when we get into that conversation. But suffice it to say, if you've ever gotten off a call or gotten off a zoom, or you know, you've had a meeting with a potential client, and you've just felt like, Ah, I just totally botched it. That did not go the way I wanted, and I really sort of screwed up. Then if you've ever felt like that, then you will really appreciate this conversation. I want to send a huge thank you to this client for allowing me to share this conversation with you. So take a listen, and at the end, I'll come back and share a lesson that you can apply to your business. Do you have an actual sales process. I'm talking about not a general sense of what you should be doing, but a real process where you know exactly what step comes next, who to follow up with, and when, and you can see at a glance where every potential client stands, if the answer is no, or if yours feels clunky, or you're reinventing the wheel every single time I made something for you. It's called roadmap to clients. It's a free 20 minute video course, and in it you'll map out your customized sales process, step by step, from the very first contact with a potential client all the way to a signed proposal. It's the same foundational process we use with every Academy member, and it's completely free go to. Smart gets paid.com/roadmap to get started.
The purpose of this call is just to check in and see how things are going so far. We can talk about what you've discovered through the first strategies we sent, or we can talk about, you know, whatever's on your plate right now, whatever's on your mind. So how can we make this a really valuable call for you,
Too much external for my introverted self
5:20
yeah, I just want to just a quick line of visibility, so I think probably prompted by the rush to get in touch with people before the end of June, I'm just coming off of what has felt like too much external for my introverted self. Okay, yeah. So I feel like it's just coming to me that I've been revving high for about a month and and, and almost I don't say, well, just say it like over indexing on business development.
Okay, okay, yeah. Is that something that? Did I make you do that? Or? No, okay, now you want to make sure?
Yeah, no, I think it was, it was the enthusiasm, and it was, it was the confluence of a few things, you know, people were accepting my invites, and it was me feeling, you know, I want it. I want to really kind of do it while it's hot and and I think I pushed to a push hard for me, so I I've just been feeling the last few days like I want to kind of come home to the nest and, and similarly, of getting getting into the my business And the client work. I also want to get into the academy. Yeah, so I think those two things just, what does that make you think?
The dance between internal and external
6:51
You know, I think it's really you're clearly in tune and tapped into, how are you feeling? Right And, and that's a really nice, just a nice way to be just for you to be able to say, Listen, I've gone hard and I need to take a break, I need to focus on other things, I need to sort of replenish, is it's a really nice internal compass. So let's help you do that. And you know, also, I think that there will always be this a dance, you know, between how much internal and how much external? You know, a lot of times people come to me because they've only been focused on internal and they don't want to do an external, and they haven't done it, and that's the part that scares them. And, you know, you've, you've done this big push, and so now it's really more about settling in, you know,
yeah, oh, I like that. I like the essence of that.
Yeah. So, so, you know, it's not like you're gonna wash your hands of it and say, Okay, I've done my business development for the year, or whatever you just did, you know, you did a little bit of a surge, and now we get to decide a when you sort of come home to the nest, like you said, what does that look like? And where are you going to focus? And how can we and be, how can we weave in little things that you can do on a regular basis so that you keep things going, right? All right, great. So tell me what you've been up to, what's been part of
Two stumbles in one month
8:19
this big push. Yeah. So, like, lots of coffees, lots of strategic you know, oh, I'm going to accept an invitation to this political event because I might see this person here. So really, being intentional about making moves, talking with people, they're reaching out to me about postings, and also, you know, I still want to meet with them and and respond that. You know, I'm not looking to go in house anywhere, but, you know, I can, I can offer, you know, C suite expertise in coaching, guiding, and some rolling up my sleeves. Some a couple of proposals I had. One I've had two kind of stumbles. One was an organization in the and it was inbound and and I was just so moved by what she does. She it's a production, and I had actually seen the production, so I was pretty high on my emotions around it. We had an initial discovery call. She signaled to me, I might not be able to I don't even I have no idea what you charge. I have no idea if I can afford you. And I just sideswiped it. I just led with, you know, I want to do this work. This is me giving back and it, but, yeah, I still, by the time I got around to doing a proposal that kind of quest to to do this kind of just on for the free that. Reduced And anyways, and I said to my husband, I said, you know, when I first learned this, this approach of bring up money early to make sure you're on the same page, you know, I said it surprised me, you know, it wasn't convinced. Then I did it with this contract that I just closed for six months. I saw it in action. And this one with the first group, I didn't for emotional reasons. And so I ended that feeling just kind of frustrated and, yeah, emotional language, like disappointed in myself, yeah. And then I had another prospect who, one month ago, said that she would, she wanted to move quickly to bring me in on a retainer for one year, and it was, would be for strategy work. And, you know, I've known her for quite a while. She's a she's hot and cold, hot and cold, hot and cold. And I really thought, Okay, we're going to close this. And then she, she went cold. She went cold. We were supposed to meet the yesterday, and that was, I think, the third or fourth time that we were supposed to get together and really nail it out. And then she, she just pushed back from that. And so I did say to her, because she said, you know, starting in September. And so I just said, you know, September feels really close. You know, I am holding space. Would love to work with you. Can I just get a check in from you, that you, you, you do want to move forward, that you are, you are interested in and I haven't heard from her. This was like 36 hours ago, so I'm feeling a little bit kind of vulnerable,
Same feelings, very different scenarios
11:43
yeah, well, and I can certainly appreciate that, you know, it's like, it's the only thing that comes to mind is like a dating metaphor, you know, do you want to go out again? Yeah, go out again. And it's like not hearing back, or feeling like you've embarrassed yourself in a conversation and then just kicking yourself, you know, well, so I can understand that the feelings of these are the same, but the scenarios are really different. So in the first one, you know, listen, the reason why you are in this business is because you care, and you know you're certainly not going to take on projects or clients that you you don't have some type of affinity for, you know, if pick a cause that you know would just make your hair, you know, hair stand on end, right? Like you're not gonna work with them exactly. Thank you. So, so, of course, you know this group, it's part of your passion. So, you know, listen, you, you've, you've learned this new skill about how to talk about price and how to lead a conversation, and how to stay really present in the conversation. And you know what you just learned, it like, three weeks ago. Yeah. I mean, does this what's the laughing? Laughing.
Well, it's like, yeah, self compassion, right? I'm still practicing.
You learned this three weeks ago
13:06
You are still practicing. And sometimes you're going to get it and feel really good about it and feel like, okay, I've got this. And other times you're going to be like, for whatever reason, you're going to skip a step, or you're going to get so swept up in the cause, right? Just like you did so self compassion, right? You know you, I bet that you're you expect to, you know, you hold yourself to really high standards, and you, on some level, expect to be good at things immediately, but this is still, still a skill you're learning.
Thank you.
It's never too late to talk about money
13:38
All right, it's never too late to have the conversation around money, you know, you can always go back if it sounds like you know, their process is a little, perhaps not clear, but you can always go back later and say, Listen, I was just thinking about our conversation, which, of course, signals that you care. I was thinking about our conversation. I just have some outstanding questions. Would love to run them by you. You know, can we find, can we find 20 minutes nice, so it's natural. So you haven't, you haven't killed that deal on the this woman, who you know is hot and cold, I think you did the exact right thing. Her communication, absolutely, her vacation is, this is very much a her problem, and it's just indicative of something going on that we don't have visibility into. Maybe she really wants your help, but can't afford you right now. Maybe she got, I mean, I bet we can come up with a million reasons. Maybe he's she's very interested in moving forward, but her board members are giving her a hard time. Maybe she wants to move forward, but she has an aging parent that she has to do, right, right? We just will never know. So all you can do is say, Listen, I'm in this, if you're in this, but I also, I'm running a business, right? I would like to reserve time for you because, because my time must be reserved, right? Are we doing? This or not?
Back to the dating, yeah, exactly.
So he also wouldn't take her silence as you've done something wrong, you know, to me, just based on what you shared so far, it seems like it's consistent with like her stick, which, again, has nothing to do with you.
The one who moves fast, then goes cold
15:19
And I've, I've seen her move so freaking fast. She brought on C suite fundraiser, and the person was dismissed. After 31 days, she she emailed this was back, and maybe May, she emailed me, can I talk to you? You know, so I sure we got on a I didn't know why, but we got on a call. She presented the situation. I think I kind of walked her off a ledge, but balancing like I'm I'm available for to help in the interim. And then we got up the phone and she said, you know, oh my god, I made me feel so much better. And almost like, then she did like, I think I made her feel too much better, because then she she, I took her pain away. And so, like, I'm not yet, My offer is not yet lined up with what's really causing her pain. She's not there yet
How do I stop helping for free?
16:19
well, and also, what I'm hearing is, you've been giving her guidance without paying for it, yeah, you know. And so that really, you know, I think in her mind, if she can get that, you know, going back to a very terrible dating metaphor, it's like, Why buy the cat if you can get them for free, right? Which is like, probably something our grandmothers said to us. So I think really your it just reminds me that, like, you're you're focusing the conversation on the work and the relationship and like, Do you want my help? Right? Like, officially, is a really good move, because otherwise, as somebody who wants to help you, know your your challenge will always be, how do I not help for free?
Right? Yeah,
and so you really have to resist the urge to solve the problem. You know, even if it's like, a little bit uncomfortable, even if you are hearing her say something and you're like, Oh my God, I know what's going on, and I know I can help. As long as you continue to do that, you're going to give her a pass to not actually hire you. Yeah, yeah. So you know you've, let's just chalk it up to you gave her a taste of how you help, how you think you've provided value, and really, now it's up to her.
Okay? So even though she she she's not replying to me like my instinct is not to circle back and say, oh, you know, like I don't feel the next move is mine. At this point, I
The breakup email
17:57
agree with that. I think that you should put something on your calendar. I mean, at least I should say I agree with that, at least not immediately. If I don't know, give, I would give it like two three weeks. Normally, I would say, follow up sooner. But you've clearly been in conversation with this woman, you know, for quite some time. I'd give it two or three weeks. Put something on your calendar that says, follow up with so and so if no response, and go into the portal and find the breakup email, because the breakup email is something that it's basically like, hey, it seems like this is no longer a priority for you if something so I forgot exactly how it's worded because, but the template is in there for you to use. But basically it's like, seems like this is not on your radar anymore. It's not a priority if something changes, let me know, and it just gives it gives them a pass. And so usually, what happens when you send that is, well, most of the time, people actually respond and they say, oh, no, no, no, we want to move forward. But it's not designed to play mind games, right? It's designed to set yourself free. You know? It's designed, yes, please cut me loose so that I can focus on other things. Because, remember, I am a grown ass woman running a grown ass business.
Nice. Okay, I will have a look at that. Thank you. I really appreciate, I think, particularly the hot and cold. I think that that was one that I needed some perspective.
Bracing for trouble that isn't happening
19:27
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, listen, unless, unless you really do send an email that's like, terrible and offensive, and I mean something like just egregious, then you know, you haven't done anything wrong, yeah, and I think oftentimes we're over here on our side, like almost kind of bracing ourselves for for getting in trouble, you know, because this process is uncomfortable, it's really easy to go to that dark place. You know, I've done something wrong. I've pissed her off, I've annoyed her. She hates me now. But. Just remember that's not what's happening on the other side, people just are living their own lives and doing their own thing, and sometimes it just takes a little bit of waiting on our side, yeah, yeah.
All right, okay, thank you.
My take: warm still needs a process
20:14
Leah, You are so welcome. So I feel like we've all gotten off a call with a potential client, or even a potential employer or partner, or, you know, romantic partner, and been like, oh, like, I totally screwed up and with potential clients, it can be around, you know, maybe I didn't talk about my work in a very compelling way, or I didn't talk about the value of my work. Or, you know, I forgot to say this thing, or ask these questions, or, you know, what I hear often is like we didn't really leave it with any clear next steps, except, you know, they said, we'll get back to you, and it can feel like you just kind of botched it, right? And the truth is, I mean, yeah, you probably could have done it better, right? And we have tools that we share with our clients for that. But everything is saveable. It just takes practice. It actually reminds me of something I saw a few weeks ago. It was like a meme or whatever that went like this. It said, I'm deeply disgusted to discover that in order to get good at a thing, I have to do it badly first, which is like also the story of my life. I'm a recovering perfectionist, and I spent years either not doing things or quitting things quickly because I wasn't immediately good at them. But that's the story for another episode. But I want to just sort of zoom out a bit and put this conversation into a broader context in the sales process, because my conversation with this client is such an important reminder that to get a client to take somebody who is interested in you to actually having them sign on the dotted line requires an actual sales process. Like, even if you're talking to somebody who's totally warm, like they came to you through word of mouth or a referral, or even if you knew them like it still takes an actual sales process to help them, you know, get to the end and go from being a potential client to an actual client. It takes conversations, and maybe several conversations, and really knowing how to move things forward. And actually, you know, a lot of women tell me that they get clients through word of mouth or through referrals. And yes, word of mouth and referrals are the best types of clients. But what's interesting about that statement of you know, I get clients through word of mouth or through referrals, is that actually, you don't get clients through word of mouth. You get leads through word of mouth, right? That's how people like walk in the door, so to speak, you get clients by guiding those potential clients who came your way through a sales process, some type of sales process, to help them say yes. Now with word of mouth and referral leads the sales process, you know, it's usually a little smoother or shorter, so it feels like you've barely had to sell, but you actually did do something to get them from that first contact to saying yes. So this conversation with my client is a good reminder that it's never really a sure thing just because somebody knows you and they're warm, it's not a sure thing that they'll say yes, or, you know, say yes on the timeline that you want and the timeline that works for your business. And I just want to draw this distinction, because I don't want the assumption that word of mouth, or, you know, another way we'd call that, is just a warm lead. I don't want the assumption that that's going to be a slam dunk to keep you from learning the skills to actually help them say yes and really be more in control of that process, because when you do have those skills, you can make sure that anyone and everyone who comes your way, you know how to help them say yes, and that's how you start to break through from where you are in your business to that next revenue level in Your consulting business. Hey, everything we're talking about in this episode is part of the system. Women like you are learning in the academy. In the Academy, we help women consultants install the two systems. Every B to B consultant needs a marketing system to consistently attract the right clients and a sales system to lead a sales process to a yes and get paid more for every contract. So even if you've only gotten clients through referrals or word of mouth in the academy, you'll learn how to attract and sign clients outside your network, how to lead a sales process with confidence, and how to get paid for your value, not your time. And There's no cold calling or cold emailing involved, no changing your services or making a course, and you won't use any pushy sales tactics. That's just not our vibe. So if you like what you've heard here, the academy may be your right next step to learn how you can get these two systems in your consulting business and make progress faster and with fewer roadblocks. Head to smart gets paid.com/academy and apply, and we can chat about next steps. All right, see you over there. Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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