From LinkedIn to modeling – finding your voice, with Juliana Spaven

Juliana Spaven 0:02

The biggest thing it did was it gave me confidence. It literally was the foundation for me to be like I have a voice. I'm smart, I have a right to be here. I'm saying things in my own voice, in a way that is authentic to me, that nobody else can say, and that is power.

Leah Neaderthal 0:26

Welcome to the smart gets paid podcast with me. Leah Neaderthal, I help women land higher paying clients in their independent consulting businesses, but I've never been a salesperson. My background is in corporate marketing, and when I started my first consulting business, I learned pretty quickly that it's about 1000 times harder to sell your own stuff than it is to sell someone else's. So I taught myself how to do it, and I created the sales approach that I now share with my clients so they can feel more comfortable in the sales process, get more of the right clients and get paid way more for every client contract. So whether your client contracts are $5,000 $100,000 or more. If you want to work with more of the clients you love, do more of the work you love, and get paid more than you ever thought you could, then you're in the right place. Let's do it together. Thanks for tuning in, and don't forget to rate, review and share. Hey there. Leah, here, and thanks for tuning in. I hope that wherever you're listening to this, wherever you are right now, I hope you're having a great week, making some good progress in your business and taking some time for you. So a while back, I was scrolling Instagram, and what's actually funny is I've deleted Instagram from my phone, which is something I talk about in episode 34 but I do sometimes go on and sort of scroll around on the desktop. So picture me like looking at Instagram, like on my browser. So anyway, I was just sort of scrolling when I saw an ad and I saw a familiar face. It was one of my former clients, Julianna spavin, and I had heard, I think, somewhere along the way, like I maybe had seen that Julianna was doing some modeling work as an over 50 model, like, I'm sure somewhere I'd sort of heard it and filed it away in the back of my brain. But seeing her, like in an actual ad, it was so cool, it sort of stopped me in my tracks. So I sent her a message on LinkedIn, and I was like, hey, is this you? And she said, Yes. And, you know, told me a little bit about it. And I was like, Oh, my God, that's so cool. That's great that you're doing modeling. And then I said, you know, hey, I don't want to be presumptuous, but like, I remember that when we work together, I remember that one of the things you said happened was that you found your voice. And like, I don't want to be presumptuous, but is any of this modeling connected to that? And if so, do you want to come talk about it on the podcast? And she said, Let me pull this up. She said, Hey, Leah. She said, all caps, of course, there's a direct connection. I would love to jump on the podcast and talk about how LinkedIn led to me finding my voice and moving into other new areas of my life, like being a 50 plus model, let's do it. And so we jumped on and had the conversation that you're going to hear today. Julianna spavin is a brand strategist, and as you've heard, an over 50 model, and in this episode, she shares how finding her voice, especially on LinkedIn, helped her realize that she had something to say, that she could take up space and that she didn't need to wait for permission. And that shift not only changed how she showed up in her business, it opened the door to something completely unexpected. Being an over 50 model, it's such a cool journey. So if you've ever felt unsure about what to say, or if you felt weird taking up space on LinkedIn, or if you've wondered whether any of this is worth it, then I'm so excited for you to hear our conversation as a heads up, you'll hear Julianna mention the program pack your pipeline, which is the system we use for getting visible and attracting the right clients on LinkedIn. That's now part of the system that we share with women consultants in the academy. So take a listen to my conversation with Julianna spavin, and at the end, I'll come back and share a lesson that you can apply to your business, and then hopefully someday soon, you'll partner with us to help you build your consulting business, and you'll come back on the podcast and share your story. Enjoy.

Leah Neaderthal 4:17

so excited to talk about your evolution. Should we? Let's just jump in. Shall we? I'm gonna

Juliana Spaven 4:23

try not to get emotional. That's my goal.

Leah Neaderthal 4:27

You can get emotional. This is like deep from the heart, so I hope, yeah, yeah.

Juliana Spaven 4:33

So our story starts. Then, if that's okay, our story starts on May 19, 2019, and that day is significant because it's it's the day after my birthday, and it's the day I was fired from my biggest account. So let me explain I had left my job. I was actually with the State Department. I had left my job in 2015 and 2016 and I decided to hang my. Single and I immediately, immediately got two clients. They were friends of mine, and they were like, Oh, help me with marketing. Help me with brand strategy. And I was like, Cool. And that went on for two years, three years, and it was great. And then in a period, the way the universe works, in a period of three weeks, I lost both of them. The first one, her company, was acquired, and the incoming company had a huge marketing team, and they were like, You know what? We don't need you. Thank you so much. Peace out. And I was like, oh, okay, that's cool. I will put all my efforts on this other client I have. Everything's going great. I was making enough money. I was really happy. And then we had a falling out, like in the beginning of May, and she waited until after my birthday, and then sent me an email the day after my birthday and said, We are officially terminated. And so what happened was what you would think I wound up in the fetal position for about a month in bed. I just was like, I was, I was I was, because it was an emotional loss of friendship and also a financial loss and also my identity. At that point, it was a trifecta that really rocked me. And finally, you know, my husband, who I adore, came to me one day on my bedside and was like, Jules, you gotta get out of bed. You got little kids who need their mama. And this is not you. This is not like the rest of your life, you're going to be a victim, right? And so I like, put my big girl pants on. And I was like, All right, what are we going to do? And I was like, Well, I'm a brand strategist, and my clients are on LinkedIn, so I should probably find myself on LinkedIn, but LinkedIn at the time for me, was daunting, so I should probably back up and introduce myself. So I am 53 years old. I'm a brand strategist. I have been for about two and a half decades. I took a when I hit, like 40 I hit, I had, like, a mini midlife crisis, and I was like, Is this what I do? Am I a madman? Do I use my powers to sell things, or could I use my powers for good? So I joined the State Department as a diplomat for six and a half years, which was amazing. And

Leah Neaderthal 7:07

this is before you started your own business, right? Or this is part of career leading

Juliana Spaven 7:12

up to this great career leading up to business State Department's amazing. That's a whole separate podcast, but ultimately it required me taking and uprooting my family all over the world, and I was not ready. At that point. I had two small kids, like, under the age of three, and I was like, we're not going anywhere. We're like, we need to, you know, have daycare and things like that. So I left the State Department, and then I started my own business, and that was really successful for my two clients that I had until I got fired, and then I was like, Oh, what do I do now? Right? So my husband was like, figure this shit out. You're smart. You can do this. So I went on LinkedIn, and I found you, you slid into my DDMs. And I was like, all right. And so I took the course at the time, which was, pack your pipeline. And I will tell you it was, it was amazing. It was, it was literally mind blowing to me, because prior to that, I had been so incredibly intimidated to post on LinkedIn. There's, you know, my whole community was out there, and it was all the people that I felt were like the rock stars of brand strategy. I knew who they were. I followed them all this stuff. And, you know, I was like, who am I to talk about brand strategy? I'm like, nobody, you know, I'm unlike, you know, I've had some jobs at some advertising agencies. It's cool, whatever. I've done some campaigns that were really cool, whatever, like, like, I'm not like this person. I'm not that person.

Leah Neaderthal 8:36

And I which is So, which is So, which is so interesting for me, because, and especially, you know, I come from, like, marketing communications as well. And what is it about, you know, we can do this so well for our clients. But when it comes to, especially at that time, like early on, like talking about myself, or, you know, I think this is, I remember you sort of saying something like this as well, like I, I could do it so well for other people, but, you know, doing it for myself is, like, impossible,

Juliana Spaven 9:05

yeah, yeah. And I think it's because we're most critical of ourselves, and we see all our flaws, but we don't see our perfections. We don't see that. We don't see our strengths, right? We're just like, oh, yeah, everybody has that. Oh, do they that? That is what, that's the magic, right? So I remember doing your course and like, learning so much, and being like, my god. I remember the first time I posted. I was so nervous. I ran upstairs and I made my husband, who we both were working from home. I was like, like, my posters,

Leah Neaderthal 9:34

he's like, Okay,

Juliana Spaven 9:37

I remember. I mean, but you need your

Leah Neaderthal 9:39

first fan, right? Like, of course, that should be your biggest advocate.

Juliana Spaven 9:45

But then I remember the first time that one of these deities in brand strategy liked my post, and I was like, such and such like my post, you know? And then it became a regular thing. And at first I was like, Oh, well, he. He liked my posts because, you know, like, he's just trying to be friendly, like, we're connected on LinkedIn, but he's trying to be friendly. And then, like, it happened, like, twice, and then three times, and like, like, like, and there was like, 10 times, and then, like, I kind of had to face my own music. I was like, Maybe he likes my posts because I'm smart and you

Leah Neaderthal 10:17

have something to say. Like, isn't it crazy, you know, the amount of head trash, even when you had, like, learned this system for LinkedIn, which is, PS, I mean, we could talk about this in a second, but like, this is the system that that I use, also is a system My people are using. I mean, like, this is it? It's it's like, I do this every day, right? And I've seen how it works, and yet it is working for you, and you're still that head trash is just still so loud.

Juliana Spaven 10:47

Yeah, it's, it's astonishing. And so, you know, and, and I will say the Okay, will PYP help you get clients? Yes,

Leah Neaderthal 10:58

Will IP, just for everybody, pack your pipeline, is the name of the system that we, that we use on LinkedIn. It's, it's been, it's now been folded into the academy. Okay, so

Juliana Spaven 11:09

will it help you get clients? Yes. Will it, you know, increase your exposure? Yes. Will it help you grow your connections, your followers, all that. Yes. For me, what I will say the biggest like, the biggest thing it did was it gave me confidence. It literally was the foundation for me to be like, I have a voice, I'm smart, I have a right to be here. I'm saying things in my own voice, in a way that is authentic to me that nobody else can say. And that is power, and that translates from LinkedIn to Facebook to Instagram to Tiktok, as we will talk about later, right? It is so foundational and so powerful to know who you truly are, and to just be like, this is this is me. This is what I believe. These are, these are my thoughts. This is my opinion, and everything like that. And you have to do the work. You have to go through. You have to figure out, well, what am I going to say and how am I going to say it? I'm going to try and I'm going to screw up. I think the price of mastery is the willingness to look foolish, to make those steps and say, You know what? I don't know what I'm doing. That's okay. I'm gonna figure it out. I figured it out before, and I'm gonna I'm okay with the consequences. You wanna laugh at me. That's cool. Watch me in six months.

Leah Neaderthal 12:33

Yeah, I love that. That's the price of mastery. I was listening to something recently that sort of put this into great perspective. It's Dr Becky, who you know, and a lot of you know, a lot of like parents out there know dr Becky, she's like, if Brene Brown met parenting, right, was just for parenting, and she said that she was telling a story, and she said, confidence isn't feeling good about yourself. Confidence is trusting yourself. And so when you say, you know, I have confidence now, I think it's just a really lovely way to put it, because it's not like or, you know, I found confidence right through this process. It's like, we all have our moments, right? But I trust that I can put out something that's interesting. I can trust that I have a voice. I can trust that what I'm saying is meaningful, right? It's not about feeling great on day one and having your first pancake LinkedIn posts go viral, right? It's about trusting that you can keep showing up,

Juliana Spaven 13:37

right, right, and then also just expanding your range. You know, when I first started posting on LinkedIn, it was only brand strategy. It was only brand strategy. I only talked about brand strategy. And I like, I had this crazy spreadsheet.

Juliana Spaven 13:47

Do you remember my spreadsheet? I showed it? I remember that I was going to bring up the spreadsheet. I

Juliana Spaven 13:50

remember the spreadsheet. I had this spreadsheet. And for viewers like, I will not show you this, but it was like, it had like tabs of like, business strategy, brand strategy, you know, target audience, all the topics, like, you know, getting to your why, like, all the topics that I wanted to talk about. And then I would like, in, you know, in every single post, I would have like, here's my headline. Here was what was really catchy. Here was the body. How many views did it get? How many likes to get? Didn't share it? I like all this stuff, right? Attractive it. You know, it was so funny. I recently was talking to a brand strategist friend who was kind of like, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm struggling on LinkedIn. And I had a, like, bumped my head, and had a moment of like, oh benevolence. And I was like, here, let me give you my spreadsheet. Okay? And I sent it to her, and I was like, I mean, this is, like, the keys to everything I've done, every single post I've ever done on LinkedIn was in the spreadsheet, and I was like, Oh, she's gonna, like, have a field day with this. And this has been so interesting, she hasn't posted a single thing, and I know why, because it's my it's my content. I came up with it. She didn't, and it's not authentic to her, and she wouldn't know how to code. Comment on the comments that show up once you make a post like that. You know, it was so interesting. I was like, wow. And the other thing also that came out of it was like, once I got all the work stuff out of the way, I started having fun on LinkedIn. And I remember one of the posts that went viral, I was like, it was just, it was like, a picture of me, like, at my desk going like this. And it was like, dear, AutoCorrect, it's never duck. And then, you know, I mean, you've, you've probably seen memes like that, but it exploded because it was so funny. And at that moment, it was just like, the perfect sense of humor. And I was like, Yeah, this is me, and I'm now starting to show up in my authentic, cheeky I drop F bombs every once in a while. I've had a way, and if you're okay with it, you can hang in my audience and and we'll be okay, you know? And it just became like it was so freeing in such a way. And again, it was just one more rung on the confidence ladder of this is me. This is how I'm showing up in the world. And yeah, I'm unapologetically a really smart brand strategist. Yeah,

Leah Neaderthal 15:58

I love can I just, I want to just double click. As the kids in corporate say, I want to double click on this the spreadsheet, because I think what's so interesting about that is you can't, you can't, like, reverse engineer this stuff. You actually do have to know how to do it and how what you want to say, and what's your why. And you know, all of that stuff you actually like, like, have to learn how to do it, and which is why it's so hard you can't do it from the outside, right, whether you have your master spreadsheet, or whether you're just watching people on LinkedIn do it, because they're going to do it a different way. And they do have a different voice, and they do have, you know, different point of view. And so I just, I think a lot of women, or a lot of business owners in general, and then a lot of women who are consultants, spend a lot of time seeing what other people are doing and trying to mimic it. But that's not the same thing as mastering it, right? And you to really master it and actually find your voice. You have to start at the beginning. You have to actually know.

Juliana Spaven 17:02

You have to build the skills, right, right, exactly, and you know, and no one's going to like you have to be comfortable with the idea that no one's going to do it quite the way you are. And that's your strength, right? Like, I am a big storyteller, and so I always start out with, let me tell you a story, and then I jump into stuff, and like, when it got to the point where it was in my LinkedIn feeds on a regular basis. I was like, and I was seeing the responses from total strangers being like, this is an awesome story. I was like, Yeah, okay. And no one else is going to take that story and be able to do it authentically the way I did. And that was what, again, it became like the foundation for the superpower where I was like, Yeah, I can really tell stories, as you know, as part of a brain strategist, right? It was so helpful. You know, it's the foundation for when you walk into a client meeting and someone catches you off guard on a question, but you're like, but I wrote a LinkedIn post about this two weeks ago. I got your answer, right? It's just so empowering. So, thank you. Thank you.

Leah Neaderthal 18:02

You are so welcome. But, and you take, you took it and ran with it and and then, I mean, you've also run far beyond it,

Juliana Spaven 18:09

yeah, yeah. So, so this was, so did I wind up getting clients? Yes, and not in the way I thought those, those demigods in the brand strategy world, they were like, Hey, do you want to work on a project with me? And I'm like, yeah. So, you know, I found myself working on this incredible brand, and we were doing an ad campaign, and we were using a whole bunch of models and all this stuff. And one of the producers was like, Let's just all like, ignore the fact that the actual beauty in the room is on the Zoom screen right now, talking to us and doing brand strategy. I was like, What are you talking about? It was like a room full of producers and stuff like that. And she was like, send me a photo, because I'm connected, and I can get you into modeling. And I was like, Oh, stop. And she wouldn't want

Leah Neaderthal 18:54

to go done. Hold on. This was happening. On, so, so fast forward. Hold on, fast forward, just to sort of punchline for everybody, right? So we're going to talk about this in a second, but you are now a like, over 50 model, right? Okay, we will get there. So, just so, just so that we have the punchline So, but, oh my gosh. So this is happening in a zoom. How did you know this was, like, legit and not just, I don't know, some sort

Juliana Spaven 19:23

of, like, because it's so first of all, it's this woman, Josie, and I had worked with her for about six months at this point, and she's like, brass tacks New Yorker, like, you know, like the world's on fire. We're going down. We have a shoot tomorrow at 9am so I will be there. Will you be there? Kind of, like, that's her whole bag. And so when she threw this comment out in this zoom call, of like, it was like, 10 men and me and Josie afterwards, she was like, I need to talk to you about this one model. So hang off the you know, hang off the call with me. And I was like, Okay. And then she was like, No, seriously. Like, send me a picture. I will get you connected with agents. Yes, I was like,

Leah Neaderthal 20:01

Oh my god. So she was like, I need to talk to you about too, about the one model and then, but you're the model, right?

Juliana Spaven 20:07

So I was like, Okay. And she, like, she was relentless about this. She like, sent me messages and texts. She's like, I'm still needing that picture, you know, and all the stuff. And I was like, fine. So I ran upstairs, I took a put a bunch of, you know, selfies, and, like, sent them to her, and I thought nothing of it. And then 20 minutes later, I get an email, you're now represented by this agency. And it

Leah Neaderthal 20:26

was like, What, oh gosh, had you hold on? Had you ever considered in your whole growing up, you know, young, yeah, like adolescence, like young 20s, or in your 20s, or whatever you had you ever considered like I should be a model.

Juliana Spaven 20:43

So interestingly and very, very briefly, I remember, like, at 14, somebody approaching my mom and being like, your daughter could model? And my mom was like, No, and she dismissed it. And then I remember I was getting my makeup done in my early 20s, and this was just so indicative of the era at that time. This was, like, early 90s. I was getting my makeup done. It was in LA and this woman who's doing my makeup was like, you know, you have like, great features. You got high cheekbones and big eyes and big lips, like you could be a model. And then she looks and she goes, how tall are you? And I was like, five six. She's like, Oh, you're too short. And she's like, how old are you? And I was like, I'm 25 she's like, Oh, you're over the hill.

Leah Neaderthal 21:22

So, yeah, I dismissed

Juliana Spaven 21:23

it. I totally dismissed it. And we, like, never had it come up in my life again until, like, it was, it was like, fall of 2021, or something like that. And Josie was just like, just, just send me freaking photos. I'm like, Okay, so anyway, so I get an agent, then I get another agent, and I get another agent, and then I long I land my first campaign, and it's for United Airlines, and I'm playing the business traveler, and I've been the business traveler and, you know, and I'm like, the, I'm in the Polaris lounge and the whole thing, and there's, like, outfit, there's styling and makeup and hair and all this stuff. And like, for the like, it, let me tell you it is. It is a freaking riot being a model. Okay, first of all, they call you talent. Like, oh talents here. Oh talent. The food is ready for talent now, crew, you're on hold till talent's done. I mean, it's the funniest thing. I was like, we need to incorporate this in schools. We need to call kids talent. I mean, it's so awesome. But for a day, you're like, princess, like people put makeup on you and they dress you in outfits, and then all you gotta do is kind of just like, look like a

Leah Neaderthal 22:24

business traveler, which I you can do because you've done it.

Juliana Spaven 22:31

That was it. And they pay you run. It's hysterical. And it was so funny. I was at this shoot, and there was another model there, and she was in her late 70s, early 80s, and she's playing the grandma, like the traveling grandma on a United flight. And I like, came to her, and I was like, Hey, can I ask you a question, how long have you been modeling? She's like, Oh, I've been an actress, actor model for about six decades. I was like, oh, okay, so you're a pro. And I was like, This is my first shoot. I'm really nervous. I kind of have imposter syndrome going on. And she just looked at me. She's like, you're thinking about this all wrong. She's like, you're freaking out over here thinking, like, oh, you know, am I, like, good enough for this? She's like, look at those people over there. And she pointed to the United clients in the room. And she's like, they're in a panic right now because they need somebody to play a business traveler. And they found you, and you look like a business traveler, and you've been a business traveler, and you act like a business traveler, and they're just like, Thank God, we found a business traveler that we you know, she's like, you think about this all wrong. Flip the script, flip your mindset. I was like, I love you. And from that moment on, I was like, I do have a right to be in the room. I do. I do. I

Leah Neaderthal 23:38

mean, it's so hard. First of all, that's amazing. And oh my gosh, the fact that you're, like, your first campaign was a major you know, advertiser. I mean, it's, it's incredible. I want to talk more about this. And it's, you can't ignore the parallels of, you know, between modeling and this first shoot. And do I even have a right to be here, right? And I am, I do, I have value here, and somebody saying, Yes, you do, and reinforcing that. And when you, you know, when you, you started using your voice on LinkedIn, like, Do I have something to say? And yes, you do.

Juliana Spaven 24:16

When you were like, is there a connection? I'm like, Oh yeah, there's a big connection. You know, there is so so since then, it's been a wild ride. I started my own Instagram, so I have my personal Instagram, but then I started silver highlights 1971 which is my working Instagram for to track my modeling projects and stuff. But I quickly realized I didn't have enough modeling content, because I was like, I'm not going full force into modeling. I'm still doing brand strategy, you know, but this was, like, my side hustle. And so I was like, you know, I post every once a while, but then I was like, you know, have a lot of like, beauty hacks and health hacks and stuff like that that I could share with women. Are, like, 45 plus. I've gone through I'm going through perimenopause right now, and I have all these strategies for how to maximize sleep, or like, how to get rid of bags under your eyes, all this stuff that I've learned or am learning as a result of being in the modeling world, but also just trial and error and stuff that I've experienced. I'm like, I may as

Leah Neaderthal 25:17

well just, PS, I'm gonna need all that content for perimenopause too. So let's just put a pin in that.

Juliana Spaven 25:24

So I was like, let me just start posting about this stuff. And so I'm growing my little Instagram and growing my little Tiktok audience slowly, but I'm finding my own little community and building my own community, just like I did on LinkedIn with brand strategy. And I just, I think it's riot. I enjoy it so much. It's, yeah, it's, it's a window into another dimension of me. But it all comes back to what I said. You know, it all like, had I not done your course, I wouldn't have had the confidence to even fathom, you know, trying modeling. First of all, I don't think that would have been an opportunity for me, because opportunity for me, because I wouldn't have gotten in with this project to meet Josie to then have a confidence be like, Okay, let me go ahead and experiment and see if I could be a model. But then, let alone, like, decide to have my own Instagram channel and talk about, you know, aging well and how to do it holistically and naturally. Like, I don't I'm not using Botox and not using fillers or plastic surgery. I firmly believe you can age optimally without using those tactics. So I'm airing, not airing on, not doing that. And so that's, that's the content I put out there every day. I'm like, you

Leah Neaderthal 26:35

know? Yeah, so it's, I love it. I love that you've sort of embraced a whole other let's just say area of expertise. Air quotes, right? But, but you know something that you feel confident talking about, not because you are the expert, the expertist, expert, expert in the world, but because you trust yourself that what you're saying has value. And it's funny, speaking of Instagram, that's, that's what prompted me to reach out to you, because I was scrolling Instagram one day and I saw an ad from a brand called frownies, which is, you know, anti wrinkle, but without Botox, right? Very on brand for you and I, and I remembered when you had announced that you would you were doing some modeling, right? I remember seeing that, and I sort of filed it away, and I saw this ad for frownies, and I took a screenshot, and I sent it to you on LinkedIn, and I was like, is that you? I mean, you and you looked great, of course. And I was like, is that you? And you're like, yeah, yeah, that's me. And, you know, there you go, another campaign booked, yeah, yeah.

Juliana Spaven 27:39

It's, it's actually really, really enjoyable and really funny. So I'm a huge brownies, and I will just say brownies does not pay their models, but they reached out to me. I put that on Instagram because I was like, people need to know. Like, my girlfriends were regularly under the misperception, or misconception that I got Botox. And I was like, I gave that up about 18 months ago, and like, what are you using? And I'm like, I'm using brownies. And they were like, shut up. And so I was like, All right, let me do a post on this. And it went like, viral, and they loved it. They were like, they reached out to me, and they're like, can you be you know, can you work with us as an affiliate? And I was like, Sure, you know, that's fine, but they don't pay models. But that was me just making content on my own and just kind of saying, like, this is what I use. And you know, you too, can get these kind of results if you want, you know, if you if that's your jam. And PS, like, I don't have an issue with, like, people who do Botox or fillers. I did Botox for like, 12 years, you know, I just found a better way. I was, like, it just worked better for me. So,

Leah Neaderthal 28:37

yeah, well, I love, you know, I think the whole strategy of like using influencers and all that stuff, paid, unpaid, whatever, I think the point is that, like, visibility begets visibility, you know. And you don't know what agent or art director or brand manager or whatever is going to see that in their feed and reach out to you, or to you know, your agent, or whatever. And so good things always happen when you show up, when you are visible,

Juliana Spaven 29:07

right? It's, it's so true. It's, it's consistency, and it's just being and showing up every day for yourself and believing in yourself, you know. And so like, brands have reached out to me, and they're like, can we work with you now? And we're, we'll pay you to be our spokesperson, to be our model, to be authentically you, and show up on camera and do this. And I'm like, Sure, and I don't always get it right, you know, I, I'm, I'm actually working with a brand right now who just gave me feedback today. They were like, it's a little too polished. You look a little too marketing. And I'm like, Okay, that's great feedback. Thank you. You know, let me, let me authenticize it a little bit more. But you know, it's, it's, it's, it's also, again, this is where it's so important. What I said, mastery comes from the willingness to look foolish. And if you go to my Instagram feed and you scroll to the very first post, you will see stuff that is cringe, and you really will and, you know, and. And here was the promise I made myself after doing LinkedIn. I was like, if I think on one day and one particular day that I'm this, this content that I'm making is good enough to post, it's gone up, and I'm not taking it down, because somebody's gonna look at that post and they're gonna be like, Oh my God, that's so cringe. And I'm gonna look at that post, I'm gonna say, you know, that is, that's called courage. That's called courage.

Leah Neaderthal 30:21

I love it. Yes, you are so right? This is not a, you know, this, this world is not felt pretty, you know. What is it called? Like, felt cute, might delete or whatever. How like people used to do that? No, the things that you might think are cringe other people also think are brave and have courage. And for every person you know, we used to talk about impact your pipeline. And we this comes up a lot when, you know, whenever we talk about LinkedIn, you know, there are think about before you were posting, right before you were showing up on LinkedIn. There were, like, those gurus, the deities that you would see every day and say, Oh, they must have it together. You know, they must know, they asked me to say, they must have things together. And the only difference between that, you know, having it together, quote, unquote and not, is that they just chose to show up. And so when you start to post, and you start to show up and get visible, you have no idea the hundreds, the 1000s of people who are out there being like Julianna. Must have it together. She really does, you know, because look at her, she has something to say. I wish I had something to say. Yeah, right. And I wonder if there, you know, even now that you've had this positive reinforcement, right, like you, you deserve to be here. You deserve to have to have a voice. You know your your voice is valuable, your presence is valuable. Are there ever moments where there are cracks?

Juliana Spaven 31:47

Oh, god. Oh god, yeah, you know that's the human condition, good, God. You know we are like we are. I always, I always think and remind myself of this. We are spiritual beings having a human experience. And part of the human experience is doubt and struggle, and she doesn't come easy, and you got to work for it. And you, you know, you stumble over your words, and you say, um, too many times, and all this yes all the time. And then you have those moments where it's a freaking home run breakthrough, and you're like, Yes, I am actually. I'm worthy of that experience. I'm gonna go chase that. I'm going to do more of that, but along the way, you know it. You know this, progress isn't linear. It's this, you know, and you have to accept the failures, because the failures are what make you great, because that's when you It depends on how you take failure. But I take it as Okay, so that didn't work out. So what am I learning? You know what? What's the feedback? You know, like, I just this for the last couple of weeks, I've, like, I've been posting stuff, and I've watched my follower count drop, and I'm like, Huh, that's interesting. There's something about my content that's not resonating. What is it? And so I'm on this whole detective work now, of like, okay, what is it? Has the algorithm changed? Because my content hasn't, so maybe it does need to change, you know, constantly figuring out stuff, but nowhere do I do? I go, Oh, you know, now I my voice is useless, and I don't have anything to say. It's more of No, no, no, I'm leaning in. But where's the lesson here? How do I improve? How do I get better? Because now I have that foundation of confidence. I've done it before. I trust me, you know, and I'm brave and I'm courageous, and I'm willing to, you know, I don't care, like, I really don't care what somebody else thinks about my my work that I put out there. I want to see it improve, right? So that's how it is.

Leah Neaderthal 33:36

Well. So what would you say to, you know, people out there listening to this, women consultants, women, business owners, who would say, okay, yeah, yes, you It's brave to show up. And then they'll say, Yeah, but I'm not model pretty, right? Like, it's easy to say that when you're model pretty. Now, is that? Do I think this is like a really productive line of thinking? No, but I think that all of us have these like little demons in our own head, trash where that affects our confidence, right? So what would you say to somebody who's like, Fine, great, easy for a model, but how can I, as a woman business owner, start to show up as well and feel confident?

Juliana Spaven 34:14

Okay, well, so I will tell you that for for so long, like people in my whole life told me that I was attractive, and I always dismissed it because I wanted to be taken seriously. And I, for the longest time, felt like there was this huge dichotomy. You were either, you know, the pretty girl, but, like, not smart, or you you couldn't be both. God forbid, you couldn't be both, right? And it took me well into my 50s to realize, Oh yes, I can. I actually can be. So I would just, I'm going to discount that right away, because most people I know are like, Oh, you're a model. Oh, he must be an airhead. And then I'm like, No, actually, I'm a brand strategist, I'm a business owner, and I'm a former diplomat, and I speak four languages. And they're like, wait, what? And I'm like, Yeah, you know. So it's not about let's put the model thing aside. But I would say if you're a business owner, you have expertise in something, and. Some point in your life you have done something that has rocked somebody's world. I know you have, I know you have, because everybody has. At some point you have literally blown the doors open. Someone's been like what you've had those moments of amazement. And so whether you need to keep the kudos folder for yourself or to write yourself a love letter to write your like, you know, figure it out. But like, remember that you too, have magnificence in you. We all have it. You're just piling up all this mind trash that you call, you know, I love that, and it's, it's muddled, and you need to unmodel that. One of the exercises I do with girls that I mentor the very first day that we sit down with. I'm like, you're going to take out a piece of paper and you're going to write down 10 things that you are exceptional at go. And I'm like, and, PS, that's the end of our mentor session for the day. And I'm like, You're gonna take time and we're gonna come back next week and we're gonna review them. And I want examples of I am good at writing, and I want you to give me three or four examples to back that up, and then you're gonna go on the next thing I'm good at meeting people, and give me three or four examples, because in those moments where those and we all have at the dark nut of the soul, where everyone's like, oh shit, what am I doing? I don't know. I just don't think I'm good enough. Like, yes, you are. Go pull out that piece of paper and remember all the things that you are magnificent at, and do that and read it because you wrote it, and it's true.

Leah Neaderthal 36:27

Oh, I love that. So I think if you're listening to this, and you know, you can take 30 seconds or five minutes, or whatever you have, and write down 10 things that you are exceptional at, I think one thing that I know that I do, that I've seen, and I see this over and over is women who hold ourselves to really high standards and are overachievers think that because something is easy, that it's not exceptional. If it comes easy to you, easily to you, it can't be exceptional. And I love this exercise of forcing people, encouraging, forcing to to really look at what's exceptional, even though it might be easy if you are somebody who can walk into a room and talk to anyone that might come easily to you, but for a lot of people, that is very exceptional. We are so good at discounting other things that we can

Juliana Spaven 37:19

do 100% because it second nature to us, and we Yeah, but anybody can do that. But anybody can do that. And it's the second that you realize, no, that's actually not true. And most of the most of the cases, that's where your value, that's where your superpower lies when you're discounting all that you know. So whatever it is, you've got to do the work, and you realize the power that you have, then it's like, it's illuminating and elucidating, and you're like, oh, and it's freeing, because then you're like, Oh, I know who I am. I can write content about this, and no one else can, because this is my superpower. It's so good. It's so good. Do the work, do the work. You got to do the work about you.

Leah Neaderthal 37:55

Of course, absolutely, that's the best work. I feel like that's the only work. So, Juliana, where can people find you?

Juliana Spaven 38:02

Yeah, so I am silver highlights, 1971 on Instagram, and I'm also on Tiktok, and then my company is magnetic brand strategy.com you can always hit me up on an email there, and then also on LinkedIn. Juliana, spavin, awesome. Juliana, thank you so much for being here. Oh my god. Thank you for inviting me. This is so great.

Leah Neaderthal 38:22

So at this point, we ended the interview, and I asked the question that I always ask, which is, was there anything you wanted to say that you didn't get a chance to say? And she said yes, and she ended up telling such a great story that I wanted to share here. So here's the very end of our conversation.

Juliana Spaven 38:38

There was one thought that I had, that I wanted to just this one conversation that I had about stereotypes in women and being attractive in business. I'll just, I'll just jump in, and if you.I was at Leah Burnett, which is an advertising agency. I was based in Hong Kong at the time, and I found myself at this dinner. I was brand strategist on the team there. And it was this dinner of all Leah Burnett people. So it must have been like three or 400 people, and I found myself seated next to the executive vice president for all of Asia PAC for Leah Burnett, this woman Big Cheese. And so she sits down next to me, and I guess I had my hair and makeup done, and I was wearing a cute dress and everything like that. And at some point in the evening, we're talking and, you know, we're brand strategy, and at some point in the evening, she just looks over at me. She says, you know, I used to, I used to be like, You I used to do my hair and my makeup and wear cute dresses and all this stuff. And she's like, but then no men took me seriously. And she's like, I knew I wanted to get to the top. So she's like, I cut my hair. Stop wearing makeup. But she wore this brand called Zoran, which is like, just very monochromatic, shapeless clothes. And she's like, I was just so passionate about becoming a serious business person. Person, and that stayed with me, and it really, you know how you have these situations, these moments in your life, where they're beliefs that they like situations happen, and they become beliefs in your life. This became a belief of mine, that you couldn't possibly be an attractive person and also be a serious businesswoman. And so for so long, I just was like, No, I'm not, I'm not a I'm not looking at that part of my life. Until I was like, it was, it was 51 and it was right around the time the modeling thing came up. And I was like, Can I can I be both? Can I be a really smart brand strategist and also be a model? And I was like, I can and that, to me, was just so explosive, because I feel like we have these limiting beliefs about what we can do and what our capabilities are, and we're boxed in. You can only be this dimension or this dimension, which can't be all and we are, in fact, multi dimensional beings, and we know this. And so why do we limit ourselves, and why do we make ourselves less than or smaller, or we confine ourselves to a box when we we're not, we're so much more. And I think that's kind of the bridge for me, where I was like, You know what? Screw it. I can be on a united campaign, and I can also write really great brand strategy that lands and motivates, and moves clients and people and customers. I'm like, I can do both

Leah Neaderthal 41:24

Well, if I could just build on that for a sec. One thing that also jumps out at me about that story is how powerful like these messages are that we might receive at pivotal points in our lives or early in our careers that stay with us and become our truth just because they hit us in the right moment or they were spoken by the right person. And how cool and how freeing to be able to say, okay, hold on. Is that still true? And to find that it's it's actually not. Yeah. I mean, yes. Did you know that I worked at Leah Burnett? I did not, yeah. I started my career at DDB, and then I went to Leah Burnett. After that, I was living in Chicago. What a small world, by the way. Just on that note, somebody once told me, a woman early in my career, I, like, was the most junior person who was sent to this, like, big thing with the agency, right? And I was, like, seated at this table these really powerful women, you know. And I'm, like, in my mid 20s, I'm probably like, you know, the thinnest I've ever been in my adult life, right? And, like, the most in shape and, and she said to me, I forgot how it came up, but she said, as a woman in business who's petite and fit, women, older women and heavier women will always be your biggest enemy. They will always hate you. And of course, here I am in my mid 20s, like trying to soak up all the genius from every experience, right? And that really stuck with me, too, and I wondered, I was like, Can you is that? Is that true about women? Is, am I? Am I to think this way about these women who are more senior or more established, or had had more life than me, and has whose bodies had changed in certain ways? Right? Is that the enemy? Or will they think of me as the enemy? And it was just so, you know, I think as I came into my own in my career, and as I came into my own in my own business, I got to decide, you know, that this cannot be true. I know I disagree with this, you know, and that's been really freeing

Juliana Spaven 43:33

for me, right? And once you have that, once you cross over, and it's so freeing, so another, another quick short story about that. My favorite color is a yellow. I have always loved yellow. It just it like cheers me up, brightens me up. But when I was 14, I went to the Clinique counter at Lord and Taylor in Chicago, and the woman working the counter told me I had yellow undertones and I can't wear yellow, so I never wore yellow. For 37 years, I did not wear yellow.

Leah Neaderthal 44:03

My mom told me I look bad in stripes, Mom, if you're listening to this, I love you. You know, you know this, right? But, like, I have a big boobs, and I was told I couldn't wear stripes. Are you serious? I love stripes.

Juliana Spaven 44:16

And it's just, it's so funny because, like, I finally, I broke down one day. This was, like, two or three years ago, and I went on and I bought, like, every single yellow product I could find, a yellow shirt, anything, right? And now I wear yellow. And people like, oh my god, that color looks so good on you. And like you just like it like, makes you glow. And I'm just like, I want to find that Clinique lady.

Leah Neaderthal 44:37

Don't ever say that. Oh, your words have power. And I think it's also especially now as a parent, it's like, I'm realizing like, your words have so much power and so offhand comments, you have to really be careful, because you never know what your I'm just gonna say it what you're like, poisoning people with, right?

Juliana Spaven 44:53

And also, the on the flip end is like, what are you willing to believe? What you know? What are you willing to take in? Like, I. Could have taken that comment from the EDP at Leah Burnett. I could have taken that and just been like, but I didn't. I let it in as fact, as like, oh, this person has the credentials, so she must know. And dadada, you know? And I was like, well, that's my that's what I'm going to do. And it's just so interesting when you allow yourself the freedom to just peel back those stories and be like, really, is that really true? Or you could decide, you really look amazing in yellow and you should wear

Leah Neaderthal 45:27

it and you should wear stripes.

Juliana Spaven 45:30

You should wear stripes.

Leah Neaderthal 45:35

All right, what a great story to end on, right? I just loved our conversation. I mean, how amazing is Juliana, and what a cool career. And if you're in the academy and you want to watch the hot seat that she mentioned, where she talked about the clarity that led to posting on LinkedIn, that led her to finding her voice, and that mega spreadsheet she talked about, and all of that led to the opportunity that led to the modeling gig, you can find it right inside the academy portal. And of course, I want to leave you with something that you can use in your business right now. And I think really it's the exercise that Julianna does with the girls that she mentors. And it's really one I want you to try, if you remember, she has them write down 10 things that they are exceptional at. And you know, you have to include examples. And not just the things that sound big or impressive, but the things that come naturally, the things that feel easy. And I really want to encourage you to do that too, because here's the truth, if you're a woman running a consulting business, chances are you're already exceptional at a lot of things, but because those things come easily to you, you probably sort of discount them. You think, Well, you know, that's just what I do. Or anybody can do that. But no, not everyone can do that, and that thing that you think is ordinary might actually be your superpower, and that might be the very thing that your clients need most from you. But you can't build a business around your value if you don't know what your value is. So I want to encourage you take five minutes, you know, today, this week sometime, and do this work. Write down 10 things that you're exceptional at, and share a few examples for each because when you can see your brilliance, you can own your brilliance, and when you start to own it, that's when you stop playing small. And when you stop playing small, that's when everything starts to shift. All right, I'll see you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai